Dropped Items and Materia

[Brannigan]

Hi,

the materia system is a cool way to get crafted items out of the game and keep crafters making items. The big problem with it, though, is that because Unique/Untradeable items cannot be melded, they are basically (with a few exceptions) worthless.

Some might point to the Ifrit Lancer, Marauder, and Archer weapons for an example of dropped items that are better than their crafted/materia equivalent. Unfortunately under the current system items like these eventually make the materia system useless.

Basically, with the materia system the way it is now, I see two possibilities in the future. Either A) Materia remains king outside of a few pieces of gear, giving a lot less incentive to do actual content when it's easier to just buy cheap crafted gear in town and gamble on forbidden materia or B) Future content drops actual good gear, killing off the materia system.

They're both bad choices, but if I had to choose between the two, I'd go with B since going and getting items with a group is a lot more interesting than playing the materia slot machine.

There is another way, though! If U/U gear is allowed to meld materia, both situations are avoided. The materia system stays useful since people will need new materia every time they upgrade their gear, and dropped gear is actually worth getting. Crafted gear can remain a cheap, quick option for leveling up and fresh 50s and it can still be converted into materia. If you want good gear, you'll need to go fight some bosses and clear some dungeons and buy/convert some materia.

Of course, a system to meld another person's gear through the bazaar will be needed, but that was going to be needed eventually anyway.

I really hope that the devs take this into consideration for 2.0.


Here's some good posts that come later in the thread

Do you have any idea what it would take to replace materia slots, and what that'll do to the items? From now on, every single pair of dropped LNC hands need STR, every single belt and sword needs +enmity just to simple function, to even be considered for use. Hey, warrior is a tank too, so they need enmity on their belts as well; but not all warriors tank, so that'd make them unable to use their artifact belt because a DD would not want +enmity, but hey with materia he could even put -enmity on it, and if they were a solo player, +HP. Isn't the materia system wonderful, you can use it to tailor your gear to your needs. How about letting us fucking use it instead of only allowing it on stupid white-named trash gear made from materials that shoot out of the ground?

Turning a zillion cheap linen 40+ armor pieces into materia every 20 minutes in a party of 8 getting 280k SP an hour AOE nuking wolves on THM and then putting those materia into a slot machine on crafted items to achieve the best gear in the game is not a fun endgame. It is however, the most efficient thing a hardcore LS can do to gear themselves. This is an issue. After a while, people are going to give up logging in every day, if all they have to look forward to is slaughtering wolves and crafting items. We need to be able to attach to U/U, so there's a reason to go get U/U, to increase the variety of worthwhile things to do in this game.

[Fated]

I don't see the problem in allowing a single meld on U/U gear. Most of the U/U gear in the game right now has no purpose because a single or double meld on a crafted piece is better, though there are some U/U equipment that offer stats in slots that cannot be gained through melding. This gives crafters some influence on dungeon rewarded gear rather than just their own crafted gear.

People argue that this will imbalance things because most people can't meld their own stuff. I don't see the problem in rewarding players who grinded their own crafts until whenever SE releases a melding UI similar to the repair system.

[grandm]

i have said it a million times, i'll say it a million more. having the best gear does not make ppl say "there is no need to do content now i have the best gear"

you have the best gear in the game so now what?

A) stand in uldah doing nothing?
B)put your uber high stat gear to good use and go out and kill something, showing off your epicness to a group?

but anyway if you took materia out of the game you would still have the same situation. you have just finished off getting a full set of the best U/U gear in the game. would you stop doing dungeons and boss battles to stand in uldah. or would you take you great gear and do something with a group of friends, because doing something is better than standing around. doing something with the best gear on is better than doing nothing with the best gear on. ppl that say materia gear is so good there is no point in doing content, have problems of their own to overcome that are separate to FF14

[Arkine]

I personally think that crafted gear with materia on it should be equal to U/U gear that doesn't have/allow materia. that gives people a choice and a reason to go for U/U gear. for instance you can get a U/U sword with +15 STR or get a crafted one melded with 15STR and maybe risk it and even have more STR on it. its your choice, or if there isn't a U/U item with stats you need you can have 1 melded to fit whatever you desire.

You can also make it so lets say a U/U body piece that has +15 STR (you can't materia STR on bodies) or pants +8 enmity or maybe a shield with 35MP and so on.

It'll keep the materia demand up and encourage people to try different things to get the builds they want like going out and getting some U/U pieces to fill in the blanks that can't be filled with crafted gear and materia and vice versa.

[Orophin]

I agree with the OP. With how things are being itemized right now, either U/U gear or materia are going to become worthless in the long run unless they allow U/U gear to be slotted. I know they need to come up with a method in the UI to allow others to slot U/U gear. I also think it'd be fair to restrict U/U gear to one slot.

[Brannigan]

i have said it a million times, i'll say it a million more. having the best gear does not make ppl say "there is no need to do content now i have the best gear"

you have the best gear in the game so now what?

A) stand in uldah doing nothing?
B)put your uber high stat gear to good use and go out and kill something, showing off your epicness to a group?

but anyway if you took materia out of the game you would still have the same situation. you have just finished off getting a full set of the best U/U gear in the game. would you stop doing dungeons and boss battles to stand in uldah. or would you take you great gear and do something with a group of friends, because doing something is better than standing around. doing something with the best gear on is better than doing nothing with the best gear on. ppl that say materia gear is so good there is no point in doing content, have problems of their own to overcome that are separate to FF14

If I have no item/quest/story/whatever incentive I'll probably do content a few times with my friends and then choose the option you failed to mention: play a different game. Items are what keep games like this going. I am certain that the developers know this since Yoshida has played games like EverQuest, etc. Dropped items are GOING to outclass crafted/materia eventually. Allowing U/U to meld materia would stop crafting from becoming useless.


I'd also like to mention that while forbidden materia is cool on paper, in practice it's kind of dumb and completely dependent on chance. I think the system would be better and allow for more interesting items if every item just had a set number of slots.

For example a Cobalt Winglet might have a single Tier IV slot while a Cobalt Shamshir might have two Tier IIIs and Ifrit's Blade has a IV and a III.

[NoctisUmbra]

There's been at least 2 threads I can think of that discuss this very subject already. Instead of continuing the discussion on existent threads, why are new threads made again and again?

The Ifrit weapons are pretty much all best in slot for DoW DDs, and the Moogle sword appears to be the best in slot for GLA now. Once they fix the proc on mage weapons for bonus effects to be on magic spells as well rather than only AA, as they said they are looking into doing already, the Maleficent Mogstaff will likely be best in slot for THM. Currently the Paragon's Crown is also best in slot for many classes.

Blue W gear are being released with stats equivalent or above that of high tier triple melded crafted gear, often also with stats that cannot be melded onto the specific slot they are for (ie. every stat on Paragon's Crown save for INT and MND). They should never, ever be meldable.

While plenty of Green W gear also share this unique aspect to them (such as Sipahi Turban, Sorcerer's Hat and Robe with -enmity), they aren't as generous when it comes to stats. This is why I feel like it'd be ok for Green W gear to be meldable with certain limitations.

Also, since it will inevitably be mentioned in this thread as well, they need to first make it so crafters can meld through the bazaars of other players which will make melding of W gear possible as well as make the process quicker and less tedious.

[Brannigan]

Also, since it will inevitably be mentioned in this thread as well, they need to first make it so crafters can meld through the bazaars of other players which will make melding of W gear possible as well as make the process quicker and less tedious.

Well, I mean. I DID mention it in the OP so yeah.

Also, I'd be really surprised if Morbid Mogblade comes anywhere close to even a single melded +hate winglet in terms of pure tanking effectiveness. That's beside the point, though. The materia system or dropped gear will eventually be invalidated if things stay as they are. Even right now if you're a Lancer with an Ifrit Harpoon you can completely ignore all weapon materia.

[Okunbunu]

Yeah I noticed this too - id much rather have a double or triple meld anything than most dropped rare/ex gear .... it makes it pointless - the stats are ridiculously high on the materia

[Okunbunu]

The materia in ffxi was awesome - you traded gear randomly to npc after doing a fight/quest and they gave u random stats