Fate grinding made the world feel more alive - why was it de-emphasized?

[Cidel]

Eh, I have a generally unfavorable opinion on FATEs, but it primarily stems from how reliant the devs had previously been on them and how they seemingly shoved it down our throats at every opportunity throughout ARR and HW into SB. Early levelling: FATEs. Relic timesinks: (the same) FATEs. Eureka: FATEs. Seasonal events: FATEs (though to be fair, I think I enjoyed certain ones, but I could count them on one hand). I made this joke a long time ago but it still mostly holds true; essentially: "The players are doing all the FATE activities we shoehorned into new content, so they must still love FATEs!"

FATEs absolutely have/had potential, but the content structure of the game almost actively defeats it in that there's better alternatives to exp, they're not very "exciting" (just kill x of a type of mob that spawns in waves, not helped by the battle system), and as somebody already pointed out, most active content is done in isolated instances/ "lobbies" via DF and PF. The most activity any FATEs are going to get are at the start of new zones' lifespans when a new expansion drops.

However as someone who's been here from the start, I can't say I particularly care to see the devs obnoxiously impose FATEs on us even more. They've evolved very little from ARR and while I do appreciate the attempt at additional incentives in ShB, to me they're still one-and-done-ish and don't feel engaging beyond "try not to get aggro'd by multiple mobs in a wave/ make sure your chocobo heals."

Honestly, the open-world zones just lack any meaningful activities in general beyond those largely ignored FATEs, treasure maps (be honest, we're there for the portals anyway), beast tribe dailies (if the zone has one), hunt trains (even then, it's a "point A to B" for most participants) and a place for gatherers to run in circles in a corner somewhere or make a beeline to a timed node.

[TeraRamis]

Eh, I have a generally unfavorable opinion on FATEs, but it primarily stems from how reliant the devs had previously been on them and how they seemingly shoved it down our throats at every opportunity throughout ARR and HW into SB. Early levelling: FATEs. Relic timesinks: (the same) FATEs. Eureka: FATEs. Seasonal events: FATEs (though to be fair, I think I enjoyed certain ones, but I could count them on one hand). I made this joke a long time ago but it still mostly holds true; essentially: "The players are doing all the FATE activities we shoehorned into new content, so they must still love FATEs!"

FATEs absolutely have/had potential, but the content structure of the game almost actively defeats it in that there's better alternatives to exp, they're not very "exciting" (just kill x of a type of mob that spawns in waves, not helped by the battle system), and as somebody already pointed out, most active content is done in isolated instances/ "lobbies" via DF and PF. The most activity any FATEs are going to get are at the start of new zones' lifespans when a new expansion drops.

However as someone who's been here from the start, I can't say I particularly care to see the devs obnoxiously impose FATEs on us even more. They've evolved very little from ARR and while I do appreciate the attempt at additional incentives in ShB, to me they're still one-and-done-ish and don't feel engaging beyond "try not to get aggro'd by multiple mobs in a wave/ make sure your chocobo heals."

Honestly, the open-world zones just lack any meaningful activities in general beyond those largely ignored FATEs, treasure maps (be honest, we're there for the portals anyway), beast tribe dailies (if the zone has one), hunt trains (even then, it's a "point A to B" for most participants) and a place for gatherers to run in circles in a corner somewhere or make a beeline to a timed node.

I'm not married to fates necessarily. I guess my bigger problem is that there's very little reason for most players to go out into the world, and - as a result - that world now feels dead.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

The problem is dungeons are way way way way way way way way x 50 to rewarding... which makes fates irrelevant unless they reward minions or = world fate (but those are so rare to happen so they don't count) .. until shadow bringers and as fa r as i know in shadow bringers its just crafting mats you could get yourself so its just as pointless.

I get Yoshi wants to shove team play in our face all the time and scream its a MMO ITS A mmo ... but his only half correct its a final fantasy first with multiplayer aspect... should focus on enjoyable content and stop shoving almost every decent reward into dungeons -raids-trails. I mean damn even the relics themself are Team played based


it basicly self-kills the point in doing anything outside standing in limsa or running around gathering while your in q lol

[Peace-Division]

FATES are overall , to me at least , very dull affairs.

You have the npc zerg towards little stockpile crates, or the mini boss and minions, or loot XX from the ground or kill the mob for one instead and hand in to a a friendly npc , to name but a few.


I wish they were more like mini games. Heck imagine a mount/chocobo set to land mode only, point to point race with colourful checkpoints appearring along a route perhaps proceduraly generated so that the race course is different each time.

[Quintessa]

I did Shared Fates for music scrolls.

It wasn't long before I gave up..

[Xatsh]

Fates are not done because they are not worth doing for the most part. I personally despise them they are nothing but mindless zergs and every single fate is the exact same.

But if Fate Grinding = Dungeon Grinding then people would do fates more. People will always go the quickest path, since dungeons give the most xp everyone does that. Why would anyone choose the harder option to level. Less Rewards and less XP. Would be foolish to do fates after unlocking flight speed in the region.

SO SE either needs to add substantial rewards to fates (what we have now is not even close to being enough) or increase the xp gain 2-3 fold.

I do not think large zones have anything to do with the problem, if anything large zones are a really good thing they make the world feel like a world (Although flying drastically diminishes that.. sorta wish they would of never added flying mounts outside zones that require them). The world seemed miniature in ARR, was like 30% of a mmo world at best. HW + made the game world feel much better in my opinion.

[Jojoya]

I'm leveling DRG right now (level 72). As a test, I just did a leveling roulette followed by FATEs in Il Mheg.

The leveling roulette took 20 minutes to complete once the group formed (queue time was 12 minutes if someone wants to factor that in for those who just AFK while in queue). I earned just under 6 million XP, for about 300k XP a minute.

In 19 minutes, I completed 5 FATEs and earned a total of 3 million XP (between kills and FATE reward), or about 160k XP a minute. 2 of those FATEs had the 50% XP bonus. Two of the FATEs I did solo, 3 of them had another player also helping.

With a good sized group doing FATEs together, I would have been closer to the same XP per minute as the leveling roulette but still the roulette would end up being better for the time spent (unless you include queue time). Keep in mind this was only by doing FATEs my job level. Having to level sync for FATEs would sharply drop the XP earned since the reward is capped at the amount for the max level you can do the FATE unsynced.

Is it any wonder that players ignore the open world content in favor of roulettes when the primary reason to do that content - XP for leveling - falls short of what roulettes give for the same time spent? Players will generally default to the most efficient content unless they hate the content itself.

But oh well, people got what they wanted. The dev team is doubling down on it by making flying possible on the last bastion of overworld that's still the ARR zones. This is unfixable by now.

Flying was never a problem in WoW let alone here. It doesn't remove or replace other content. It makes it easier to get to the open world content that does exist. The easier it is to get to the content, the more likely the player is to do it. Make it too inconvenient/annoying, and they'll skip it in favor of other content.

People value their time. Wasting it by forcing them to engage in tedious travel to get to content that's less than rewarding is going to deter from what little interest they might have had in doing that content, frequently to the point they stop doing it.

Some ground travel is needed for the sake of world building in a MMORPG but it doesn't need to be mindnumbing and persistent, especially once the player has completed the main zone story and moved to the repetitive content. That's where WoW went wrong when it tried to remove then delayed access to flying, and where FFXIV has done it right. We still have to travel by ground for that initial world building and story. When it's time to go back for the repetitive content, we can fly.

[TeraRamis]

I'm leveling DRG right now (level 72). As a test, I just did a leveling roulette followed by FATEs in Il Mheg.

The leveling roulette took 20 minutes to complete once the group formed (queue time was 12 minutes if someone wants to factor that in for those who just AFK while in queue). I earned just under 6 million XP, for about 300k XP a minute.

In 19 minutes, I completed 5 FATEs and earned a total of 3 million XP (between kills and FATE reward), or about 160k XP a minute. 2 of those FATEs had the 50% XP bonus. Two of the FATEs I did solo, 3 of them had another player also helping.

With a good sized group doing FATEs together, I would have been closer to the same XP per minute as the leveling roulette but still the roulette would end up being better for the time spent (unless you include queue time). Keep in mind this was only by doing FATEs my job level. Having to level sync for FATEs would sharply drop the XP earned since the reward is capped at the amount for the max level you can do the FATE unsynced.

Is it any wonder that players ignore the open world content in favor of roulettes when the primary reason to do that content - XP for leveling - falls short of what roulettes give for the same time spent? Players will generally default to the most efficient content unless they hate the content itself.


Flying was never a problem in WoW let alone here. It doesn't remove or replace other content. It makes it easier to get to the open world content that does exist. The easier it is to get to the content, the more likely the player is to do it. Make it too inconvenient/annoying, and they'll skip it in favor of other content.

People value their time. Wasting it by forcing them to engage in tedious travel to get to content that's less than rewarding is going to deter from what little interest they might have had in doing that content, frequently to the point they stop doing it.

Some ground travel is needed for the sake of world building in a MMORPG but it doesn't need to be mindnumbing and persistent, especially once the player has completed the main zone story and moved to the repetitive content. That's where WoW went wrong when it tried to remove then delayed access to flying, and where FFXIV has done it right. We still have to travel by ground for that initial world building and story. When it's time to go back for the repetitive content, we can fly.

Actually, flying is a big problem. Without flying, you can have smaller zones. Smaller zones, by their nature, have higher detail density - it's undeniable that the larger you make a thing on a fixed budget, the fewer features it will have. Ergo, flying is a needless addition that accomplishes nothing but to bloat the world to accommodate it. And please do not cite WoW asa prime example of a harmless addition of flight - the development team has been openly opposed to that feature for a solid 4 expansions, and probably been regretting it for much longer.

[Deceptus]

Because at some point SE decided to make the exp rewards not at all worth the time invested.

When you have tens of millions in exp you need per level, 50 thousand exp from a FATE is just pointless. Needing 200 FATES per level is ridiculous.

That and they've become nothing more than bullet sponges who's HP are determined on who killed them BEFORE and not how many are killing them NOW.

Had a ton of people leave the zone and it's just a few of you now? Good luck doing any FATE for a bit.

[Jojoya]

Actually, flying is a big problem. Without flying, you can have smaller zones. Smaller zones, by their nature, have higher detail density - it's undeniable that the larger you make a thing on a fixed budget, the fewer features it will have. Ergo, flying is a needless addition that accomplishes nothing but to bloat the world to accommodate it. And please do not cite WoW asa prime example of a harmless addition of flight - the development team has been openly opposed to that feature for a solid 4 expansions, and probably been regretting it for much longer.

And you probably shouldn't regurgitate what a few very vocal WoW leads have said as being the opinion of the entire development team. Take some time to read interviews published in the aftermath of the WoD fiasco. The development team was actually very divided on the subject. That they still continue to add flying despite their player base being stripped down to their most loyal fans who will put up with just about anything goes to show that it's not as detrimental to development as those vocal few developers want players to believe.


Personally, I'd rather have wide open spaces that make the world feel like a world instead of cramped "high detail density" corridors that are dull and boring as content. Isn't that part of what went wrong with 1.0 - prioritizing that high detail over a good game experience?