Quote Originally Posted by Seddrinth View Post
Oh no we are not talking about people messing up 1 or 2 times. There are people who got carried to clears while failing mechanics that are now able to join PF farm groups. I'm talking about the savage PF pugs. People messing up f14 on Ramuh, tornado e7s, LR shiva, icelit, etc. Just because they've been carried to a clear doesn't mean they know the fight well enough to consider it on farm. So we just want to protect our playerbase from these guys griefing the raiding population. We want a positive community not people trolling groups. And honestly I don't think there's any negative to a system that encourages people to join learning parties to get better. We are not being toxic but trying to be helpful to everyone.
again that is a bad mindset to have, kick the person and form an Endgame LS for future runs. Not everyone who flubs mechanics is there to be carried or is griefing. Thisa community suffered from assiptionitis.. i swear. gate keeping helps no one. Just makes people feel they cant get stuff done. A lot of ppl stop doing endgame in MMO because of drama lamas and ridiculous gate keeping.

set up a 3 wipe rule, add people whp was helpful to flist/ ls and form connections. funny enough early ff11 didnt really have this issue as the team leader would explain the fight/content and tell ppl what to do/ where to go.