6.0 Both Tank and Healers Need Major Focus on Bringing Back Job Identity

[Absurdity]

Sometimes I step in as a back-up tank for E6S. I don't know about other War's but I personally find fitting in IR windows a pain there. I remembered I had DRK leveled too, had a look over it as a potential replacement and realized I have the exact same "IR window" on the exact same CD. Bit depressing really.

Fitting in IR optimally requires you to actually take unnecessary damage in E6s with a high potential of just outright dying if you haven't practiced it enough, it's only slightly less annoying than repositioning Ramuh when his reaction time is that of a dead horse and he casts every 3 seconds.

Fell Cleave has, for the longest time (literally years at this point), been Warrior's 'thing'. You'll have to forgive me if I find it hard to believe that very many people play WAR who don't care for Fell Cleave

I never claimed that it isn't or that I don't care about Fellcleave, it just doesn't feel all that rewarding to use anymore. Instead of it being this big burst that you set up it instead became just "a thing that you spam every 90 seconds and somewhere in between". Your IR burst requires barely any braincells to set up and the only thing that makes it even remotely interesting is trying to squeeze as many Inner Releases into a fight as possible. The fact that Inner Golfswing hits for 330 more potency without IR doesn't exactly help.


So yes, the novelty of spamming the same button for 10 seconds has long worn off.

[AziraSyuren]

I think WAR and maybe DRK could really benefit from an SMN-like design, where your big dick burst leads into an even bigger dick burst. It wouldn't exactly fix my previously mentioned issues with tanking, but variety is something I feel is really lacking from WAR's gameplay.

Something like Inner Release (for the opener)->Pre-IR Berserk->new burst window->loop would be a lot more interesting than what we have now. Just being a Fell Cleave bot is kinda boring, and while it's our thing, there should be more to do than just our thing.

[HeulGDarian]

I think WAR and maybe DRK could really benefit from an SMN-like design, where your big dick burst leads into an even bigger dick burst. It wouldn't exactly fix my previously mentioned issues with tanking, but variety is something I feel is really lacking from WAR's gameplay.

Something like Inner Release (for the opener)->Pre-IR Berserk->new burst window->loop would be a lot more interesting than what we have now. Just being a Fell Cleave bot is kinda boring, and while it's our thing, there should be more to do than just our thing.

eeeh smn system has its own pros and cons. Ill tell you about the complete one since this isnt about the problems shb put to the job. The biggest con is that if you die you have to start all over again, the second one is that it will be long,
the pros to it is that it allows you to time when your windows will hit better cause its flexible, it has moment to moment decision making and it also requires planning.

It is most definitely as high risk high reward as it gets. Though again currently it is really clunky.

[ForteNightshade]

I never claimed that it isn't or that I don't care about Fellcleave, it just doesn't feel all that rewarding to use anymore. Instead of it being this big burst that you set up it instead became just "a thing that you spam every 90 seconds and somewhere in between". Your IR burst requires barely any braincells to set up and the only thing that makes it even remotely interesting is trying to squeeze as many Inner Releases into a fight as possible. The fact that Inner Golfswing hits for 330 more potency without IR doesn't exactly help.


So yes, the novelty of spamming the same button for 10 seconds has long worn off.

Despite Warrior still being my preferred tank, I've felt similarly for a while now. Fell Cleave just isn't what it used to be. In Heavensward, it has the highest potency; was used sporadically, and required thought on how you built up your Wraith stacks. I still love that system as it tied both offense and defense together which suited Warrior. Inner Release around 4.1 was good once they fixed the initial problems. You had to consider your gauge, and while it was a bit spammy, the novelty of Fell Cleave hadn't worn off. By now though... Fell Cleave just isn't the big "OOMPH" button it used to be. I still enjoy it but I wish their was more thought to it and IR then "is my GCD 3/4th ready? Yes. SPAM"

I'm also borrowing Inner Golfswing because that sums up how underwhelming it felt for me. And I love it.

[Lucy_Pyre]

Despite Warrior still being my preferred tank, I've felt similarly for a while now. Fell Cleave just isn't what it used to be. In Heavensward, it has the highest potency; was used sporadically, and required thought on how you built up your Wraith stacks. I still love that system as it tied both offense and defense together which suited Warrior. Inner Release around 4.1 was good once they fixed the initial problems. You had to consider your gauge, and while it was a bit spammy, the novelty of Fell Cleave hadn't worn off. By now though... Fell Cleave just isn't the big "OOMPH" button it used to be. I still enjoy it but I wish their was more thought to it and IR then "is my GCD 3/4th ready? Yes. SPAM"

I'm also borrowing Inner Golfswing because that sums up how underwhelming it felt for me. And I love it.

I don't know about you, but IR Fell Cleave is still by far the most satisfying thing in this game to me. Inner Chaos' & Chaotic Cyclone's animations are a little lackluster though..

[OdysseusGR]

I disagree. I enjoy playing my Paladin and the role feels pretty nice. Tank roles are now more accessible and new players can learn them easier.

[bundythenoob]

I disagree. I enjoy playing my Paladin and the role feels pretty nice. Tank roles are now more accessible and new players can learn them easier.

you enjoy paladin because it was the only job whose identity and gameplay evolved with the expansion. where as both DRK and WAR were held back in terms of design. a lot of the changes in SHB that were made did indeed make tank jobs more accessible, but it did not have to come at the cost of gameplay identity.

PLD is the best example of how to make tanks more accessible while retaining gameplay identity, where as DRK was outright deleted in terms of identity. neither DRK nor WAR had to suffer what they did in order to make them more accessible, and most people just want the gameplay aspects to return, not so much the emnity management or aggro combos, which were indeed holding new tank players back due to gear differences and holding veterans back due to efficiency loss

[Absurdity]

Inner Release around 4.1 was good once they fixed the initial problems. You had to consider your gauge, and while it was a bit spammy, the novelty of Fell Cleave hadn't worn off.

My only issue with 4.1 Inner Release was how little of an impact it actually had considering how much setup it required, granted I had just returned to the game in 4.1 and wasn't exactly used to the new warrior yet.

and most people just want the gameplay aspects to return, not so much the emnity management or aggro combos, which were indeed holding new tank players back due to gear differences and holding veterans back due to efficiency loss

I'd argue that enmity was a gameplay aspect. Was it very engaging? Not really but it was something you needed to keep an eye on. I do however agree that it was holding new tanks back simply because the game never told them that "it's fine to stop generating enmity at some point" so they often ended up spamming enmity combos while sitting in tank stance the whole fight which consequently made their dps sink through the floor. I'm ultimately okay with them removing it...except for enmity combo animations because Butcher's Block and Power Slash are flat out better-looking than Storm's Path and Souleater.



What I'm not okay with is that they removed a gameplay aspect, albeit a boring one, without giving us something to replace it.

[Kazukiyashuo]

Healers are perfectly fine and balanced . I dunno in whats facts ppl think they dont evolve or they dont care about them. Im playing healer since realm reborn and they never had complex dps rotations , u are whining for what a 1 , 2 dot u lost ? For the love of god. You are playing to HEAL not to dps. Thats the trend that goes around the last year that why i see everyday more and more useless healers unable to keep ppl alive cause they are focused on pressing the 1 dps button they have. If you want to dps play a dps. I remember when u had to cleric stance to dps, that was a challenge. 80% of healers couldnt perform or add any dps back then. Noone needed or asked them to dps.
About tank yeah they made easier to play and thats not bad. Even when tank stances were on. They were kind of useless anyway. A good tank was always building aggro then drop the stance for plenty of time. Some ppl refuse to accept that world is moving and changes and u cant have the same thing forever, things are evolving.
Conclusion, im very happy with healers state at this point cause without cleric stance more newbie healers can do sone dmg to contribute plus can more easily focus to do what their role is about. HEALING . Only thing im sad is that astro lost his card variety cause THIS same community was crying all day that cards are all useless and we just need balance. Now u got it. And one of the most intresting healing class became braindead. Congratz einsteins

[Absurdity]

Healers are perfectly fine and balanced .

Balanced, maybe. Perfectly fine? Quite evidently arguable.

I dunno in whats facts ppl think they dont evolve or they dont care about them.

I'm pretty sure people are aware that healers have evolved, it's just in a direction a lot of healer mains do not enjoy. Healer was never my main job but I did give healing a try in E9-E11s, nowadays I can barely be bothered to heal in dungeons because of how mindboggingly boring they are even with wall-to-wall pulls and those fights are atleast fast.

For the love of god. You are playing to HEAL not to dps.

Not sure what game you're playing but when you spend over 50% of a fight not healing and instead spamming your single dps spell you're quite obviously not playing to heal.

Thats the trend that goes around the last year that why i see everyday more and more useless healers unable to keep ppl alive cause they are focused on pressing the 1 dps button they have.

Interesting. From my completely subjective experience I've seen a lot more healers just spam healing the group or twiddling their thumbs, doing absolutely nothing, when there is no healing required, which is quite often.

About tank yeah they made easier to play and thats not bad. Even when tank stances were on. They were kind of useless anyway. A good tank was always building aggro then drop the stance for plenty of time.

Yes, a good tank knew how much enmity they would generate by their dps alone and could drop their tank stance a lot, that's what you would call a skill, something you gained with experience and not every tank could do it or wanted to do it which made their dps suffer in return. But I think we already established that making enmity a non-issue was an okay change to make the job more accessible.

Some ppl refuse to accept that world is moving and changes and u cant have the same thing forever, things are evolving.

One of the most baffling statements of the obvious I've read in a while. Yes things evolve and change, that's true for games as well, especially mmos. What exactly was the point? That we should accept the way the game currently is because change?

Conclusion, im very happy with healers state at this point cause without cleric stance more newbie healers can do sone dmg to contribute plus can more easily focus to do what their role is about. HEALING .

Glad you're enjoying the game. Cleric stance however hasn't been a thing since Heavensward and Healers could always contribute "some" damage, that's what separated good healers from bad or inexperienced ones, being able to keep their party alive and contribute a decent chunk of dps to the fight. The problem right now is that HEALING is so incredibly easy that you spend a loooot of the fight dpsing, in the most unengaging way possible, spamming the same 1 button over and over again.

Only thing im sad is that astro lost his card variety cause THIS same community was crying all day that cards are all useless and we just need balance.

I highly doubt people wanted "just balance". It's a fact that it was mathematically superior to the other cards but instead of adressing this issue by making all cards provide a benefit that is close to equal in value SE took the easy route and just made all cards a balance.