Concerned for the long-term diretion of healers

[Satarn]

1/2 of the entire population needs to be playing healers and tanks, or the game just stops working.

The problem with this is that since majority of content requires tanks and healers, somebody has to bite the bullet and play them in order to clear anything, regardless of their enjoyment or lack of thereof. Given that afaik devs mostly look at clear rates when deciding which jobs to give attention to, the "relevant" data shows that support roles are "fine" and in no need of fixing, since all clears have the mandatory 2 tanks and 2 healers logged.

We can strike and re roll to DPS all we want, but the same simplifications which drive us away, make it easier than ever for other players to just swap into support roles if they need to fill in. The average skill level of tanks and healers might decline as a result, but that will likely just make SE double down on making them more boring and unengaging to play.

[AnotherPerson]

The problem with this is that since majority of content requires tanks and healers, somebody has to bite the bullet and play them in order to clear anything, regardless of their enjoyment or lack of thereof. Given that afaik devs mostly look at clear rates when deciding which jobs to give attention to, the "relevant" data shows that support roles are "fine" and in no need of fixing, since all clears have the mandatory 2 tanks and 2 healers logged.

We can strike and re roll to DPS all we want, but the same simplifications which drive us away, make it easier than ever for other players to just swap into support roles if they need to fill in. The average skill level of tanks and healers might decline as a result, but that will likely just make SE double down on making them more boring and unengaging to play.

At a certain point, if the average skill level of healers and tanks get so bad, people will just not queue in Duty Finder. Queueing up pre-made makes it easier for friends as they can just ask their friends to queue them in as a healer after. Skill level of bad healers won't affect pre-made groups who has a healer. It will only affect the vast majority who doesn't queue up with friends and plays solo or not as a tank/healer. The ones who suffer from lack of healers in Duty Finder will be the majority of the players going through the content from lv 1 to 70 - which is the vast majority of the game. I say lack of healers because if the current healer drought isn't any indication, then making gameplay worse than currently will only exacerbate the problem. Not many players will still return to heal or tank because the role is still looked on as a high-responsibility role. No amount of simplifying the role will change that. They should make the role fun for players by raising the skill ceiling like they did with BLM, not lower it.

[Saefinn]

Interesting to me that you're enjoying Noct AST because of its flaws, rather than despite them. I'm playing Diurnal AST as a "flawed shield healer", simply because I believe I can make do with having free shields every 30s / 120s, with regens to do work in-between cooldowns. The job I want to play is a shield healer that is highly effective and also FEELS effective, like SCH used to... But, as someone whose view of healing is "warped" by playing Scholar since it was first introduced, it doesn't feel like that job exists in SB2. So I'm also trying to make do with the broken pieces of what's left over..

Yeah I am in the same boat.

For me I guess it was missing 2.0 SCH and its lack of efficiency and using other tools to make up for it. I traded in my SCH for AST because AST is the least boring IMO for ShB healers, but I should clarify I am a semi casual player, and most of the content I heal is not on the higher tiered content as I went to main DNC for ShB.

That said, now that I have started healing ShB Endgame stuff as AST (I was doing DNC before) I am discovering I am a worse AST than I am SCH and my Noct Sect tendancies affected progression, so I started using Diurnal over the weekend and it worked more efficiently, which on the bright side means I have plenty of room to improve on, which means there is still content I can enjoy healing on, though it is not day-to-day content or on my preferred healer. But it is something.

[D6Damager]

I am nowhere near endgame, but having just recently switched over from WoW...I am really enjoying the simplicity of healing in this game. Maybe it will change over time, but going into group content is not nearly as stressful as other MMO's I've played and therefore I can relax and actually enjoy what's going on instead of frantically spamming abilities and never looking away from health bars.

[Saefinn]

I am nowhere near endgame, but having just recently switched over from WoW...I am really enjoying the simplicity of healing in this game. Maybe it will change over time, but going into group content is not nearly as stressful as other MMO's I've played and therefore I can relax and actually enjoy what's going on instead of frantically spamming abilities and never looking away from health bars.

This is pretty much why I like the idea of keeping the skill floor and raising the skill ceiling.

Means it is still approachable for newbies and is less stressful for those still getting used to things. But for anybody that outgrows that and find they're in a good place and are finding it easier and less stressful then they've got something that feels good.

At least, the problem we kinda have is that the better and more confident you grow as a healer the less it will feel you have to do. This is because you learn how to be more and more efficient at healing, more will become second nature, some are still okay with that, but what it results in is a greater downtime where you aren't healing but are contributing to DPS instead and the DPS parts of the healer jobs are too lackluster and have especially been so since ShB came out. WHM was almost pretty much there, but SCH had a good DoT management aspect that was engaging enough and AST's card system was more engaging to use.

[Satarn]

Not many players will still return to heal or tank because the role is still looked on as a high-responsibility role. No amount of simplifying the role will change that. They should make the role fun for players by raising the skill ceiling like they did with BLM, not lower it.

I do absolutely agree with you here, the issue is I'm afraid SE is so lost in their foolish chase after "accessibility", that they completely ignore this interaction between roles and player mentality. They will likely sooner dumb the support roles down to being near automatic in attempt to attract more non-tank/healer types to switch, or just push more Trusts/Squadrons to deal with the queues, than actually make these jobs more appealing to typical support players who like having more responsibility. The casual content you actually queue for is already so damn easy to tank and heal that the skill differences aren't so noticeable, imagine how it would be if they made things even easier.

[Gravagar]

The problem with this is that since majority of content requires tanks and healers, somebody has to bite the bullet and play them in order to clear anything, regardless of their enjoyment or lack of thereof. Given that afaik devs mostly look at clear rates when deciding which jobs to give attention to, the "relevant" data shows that support roles are "fine" and in no need of fixing, since all clears have the mandatory 2 tanks and 2 healers logged.
...

From what I see, White Mage is used in more than twice as many clears as Astrologian for this tier of Savage, with Scholar in between both. Paladin is also used in almost double the amount of clears as Warrior is. I suppose that means AST and WAR are most likely to get continued buffs, even though AST is already a clear cut above the other healers in terms of sheer output (WAR is not though.) But, really, it goes to show that what we need is not buffs, but core reworks- compared to past iterations of AST, you're doing much more work for much less payout, and having OP potencies and a 1.5 second cast time doesn't make up for the fact that this iteration of AST has a lot of room for improvement...

Yeah I am in the same boat.
...

I really tried my best to give RDM-main a try this expansion, especially due to the envy for how smooth it is with things like Context Sensitive Verflare/holy and Scorch buttons reducing hotbar bloat while still adding to the job. But, yeah, I definitely feel the pain of not being as good of an AST as SCH, but I'm kinda required to accept that at least there's SOME niche I can make for myself where I'm not completely uncomfortable healing altogether. I primarily play Savages myself- the current state of healers kind of discourages me from playing if I'm not goofing around with my static, because they're the main reason I log on, not to play my job and get stuff done.

I am nowhere near endgame, but having just recently switched over from WoW...I am really enjoying the simplicity of healing in this game. Maybe it will change over time, but going into group content is not nearly as stressful as other MMO's I've played and therefore I can relax and actually enjoy what's going on instead of frantically spamming abilities and never looking away from health bars.

Glad to hear you're enjoying it! The number one difference that I believe you're noticing is a difference in encounter design, rather than job design, tbh. Encounters in this game early on give you a lot of room for error, so they are fairly approachable to new players. You'll get more challenging fights as you proceed on the road to lv80, especially when you get to each expansion's level cap (lv50/60/70/80 capped content.) It is pretty likely that, even if healers get changed in the near future, that aspect will not change! It would mainly be about higher level healing getting more interesting than it currently is, because... Well... The core experience doesn't change a whole lot from lv50 to lv80 for most jobs, and that's something a lot of players at 80 are dissatisfied with.

[Saefinn]

I really tried my best to give RDM-main a try this expansion, especially due to the envy for how smooth it is with things like Context Sensitive Verflare/holy and Scorch buttons reducing hotbar bloat while still adding to the job. But, yeah, I definitely feel the pain of not being as good of an AST as SCH, but I'm kinda required to accept that at least there's SOME niche I can make for myself where I'm not completely uncomfortable healing altogether. I primarily play Savages myself- the current state of healers kind of discourages me from playing if I'm not goofing around with my static, because they're the main reason I log on, not to play my job and get stuff done.

Yeah, fair. DNC flows really well too, like both are really well designed jobs and I feel they definitely should get praise for doing these 2 right. The RNG aspect of DNC is enough to not hate you for bad luck and at the same time makes it dynamic enough to not autopilot your rotation, so it is harder to get bored with.

With me going DNC and doing AST once in a while, I ended up missing healing still. So finding a niche is good if you are healer at heart. Being a semi-casual player here, my downtime being made boring as heck is a big hit. My FC does endgame at a very leisurely pace, because let's face it, we're lazy, but fortunately one of our healers has swapped roles and I jumped at the opportunity to swap to AST in his place. The fact I am enjoying it more and me not being as good on AST is meaning I'm having fun, so it is making me consider being less casual so I can enjoy healing in some content, I just hate pugging content and am not in a position where I can dedicate myself to a static.

[Semirhage]

I'm sitting back with my DPS classes and snacks watching the healer role from afar and prepping to roll my eyes no matter who gets their wishes.

If things keep going as they do, prepare to get 2-3 skills tossed into role abilities and job design that encourages spamming Cure/Benefic/Physick and standing around in your downtime.

If a shockingly non-insignificant portion of these forums finally break through and get the designers to listen, I'm prepared for SCH and AST to get their gameplay loops back while WHM is stuck with Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare because "it's always been simplistic and should keep the current design".

I've never seen a SCH or AST enthusiast volunteer their job for the Netflix Nap Healer slot, of course. It's only WHM that should suck.

[Billythepancake]

I'm sitting back with my DPS classes and snacks watching the healer role from afar and prepping to roll my eyes no matter who gets their wishes.

If things keep going as they do, prepare to get 2-3 skills tossed into role abilities and job design that encourages spamming Cure/Benefic/Physick and standing around in your downtime.

If a shockingly non-insignificant portion of these forums finally break through and get the designers to listen, I'm prepared for SCH and AST to get their gameplay loops back while WHM is stuck with Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare because "it's always been simplistic and should keep the current design".

I've never seen a SCH or AST enthusiast volunteer their job for the Netflix Nap Healer slot, of course. It's only WHM that should suck.

I haven't seen anyone recently say "WHM should be forced to be simple and boring" in fact, I've seen everyone advocating for WHM to have more to do as well.