Healers who rescue pull tanks into mobs.

[Goji1639]

No, if you *don't* want to pull big then say so; or if you're the healer then ask if the tank would pull smaller for you. Otherwise, deal with it. Large pulls are standard.

So, if the run starts and I'm single pulling you're not going to ask me to pull bigger? Interesting.

So, what are you going to do about it then? How are you going to enforce this rule you made up?

Now you've all got me curious. I'm going to start single pulling and see what people do. If they ask me to pull bigger I'll pull bigger. If they obstinately say nothing because "big pulls are a rule I made up, so I shouldn't have to ask," then I'll just continue about at a nice relaxing pace, while everyone quietly follows me.

I need to know if complete refusal is communicate preferences is a game-wide phenomenon, or if what I'm experiencing is just a handful of unfortunate members of this particular forum.

[Lucy_Pyre]

So, if the run starts and I'm single pulling you're not going to ask me to pull bigger? Interesting.

So, what are you going to do about it then? How are you going to enforce this rule you made up?

Now you've all got me curious. I'm going to start single pulling and see what people do. If they ask me to pull bigger I'll pull bigger. If they obstinately say nothing because "big pulls are a rule I made up, so I shouldn't have to ask," then I'll just continue about at a nice relaxing pace, while everyone quietly follows me.

I need to know if complete refusal is communicate preferences is a game-wide phenomenon, or if what I'm experiencing is just a handful of unfortunate members of this particular forum.

If I'm playing healer and I get a tank who says nothing in chat while single pulling I'm going to Rescue him into the next group. Unless the group is completely incapable of handling it small pulling is unacceptable.

[Goji1639]

If I'm playing healer and I get a tank who says nothing in chat while single pulling I'm going to Rescue him into the next group. Unless the group is completely incapable of handling it small pulling is unacceptable.

Then I'll politely ask you to stop using Rescue on me. Then if you do it again I'll save the chat log that shows me asking you to stop; save the combat log that shows you continuing to do it; and report you.

That seems like a really inconvenient way to handle the situation for everyone, and all you would accomplish is pulling 1 extra group of enemies while Rescue is off CD. Are you sure you wouldn't rather just ask me to pull wall to wall?

[Lucy_Pyre]

Then I'll politely ask you to stop using Rescue on me. Then if you do it again I'll save the chat log that shows me asking you to stop; save the combat log that shows you continuing to do it; and report you.

That seems like a really inconvenient way to handle the situation for everyone, and all you would accomplish is pulling 1 extra group of enemies while Rescue is off CD. Are you sure you wouldn't rather just ask me to pull wall to wall?

If you want to pull small then *say so*. 9 times out of 10 people will accommodate you. If you say nothing, however, and simply small pull from the bat then you've no one to blame but yourself when you get Rescue'd into another pack.

[Avidria]

This is getting funnier to me the more I think about it because in most of my dungeons I almost never see genuine single pulls OR genuine wall to wall pulls for entire dungeons in random groups
It's almost always like 2-3 packs at a time with the occasional bigger pull and I think in the entire time I've played I've seen someone ask to slow things down like once... Like. A middle ground exists here and straight zerg rush speed runs are not common at all in my experience unless I queued with friends
Also most runs no one speaks at all
And I almost never see rescue used at all in 4 man's outside of like... Amaurot's final boss occasionally... More often some impatient dps runs ahead to grab more regardless of why a wall to wall run didn't happen, usually resulting in an ugly mess... Doubled in messiness and hilarity when the same impatient idiot goes running around instead of actually even attempting to bring the crap they grabbed toward the tank... Like I literally had a guy grab an extra pack and run around in circles while I had to chase him down to get it off him (this time it was the healer) and I still have no idea how we didn't wipe
Are people just constantly running into single pulling tanks or what? I think I've literally seen three this entire expansion

[TyrTry]

Honestly, the easiest solution to most of this is just to simply speak up. Say something. Anything!

"Hey tank pull big"
"healer, I'm new and not comfortable with big pulls"
"I just ate something bad and big pulls will make me poo"

Literally anything. Don't wait on others to say something or do it first. Just. Freaking. Say. Something.

If they ignore you, go by what your comfortable with. If they don't like that and cause more complications, then leave!

Don't rescue to pull people into mobs they aren't comfortable with!

Don't kill healers because they pulled you and you got mad!

Don't pull ahead of the tank because your late to your job! Too damn bad!

It's as if people will jump through crazy hoops and create these ridiculous schemes instead of just simply speaking up and asking for bigger pulls. Or not. Who cares.

[Tigore]

It's rare for me to actually see single pulling tanks if they are not sprouts. From my experience for the Primal Data Centre, tanks tend to default to at least a double group pull whenever possible. If the enemies don't move like the Satasha clam room or AoE DPS is almost nonexistent, then everyone is better off with single pulls. At times for me, it is wall to wall off the bat. Maybe the PvE Mentor symbol has something to do with it for me? Not sure. I still remember a tank stating at the start he only pulls big, so brace yourself. I confirmed everything will be fine as the healer.

At this point, it's sometimes hard to tell whose side every poster is really on. The arguing is starting to get senseless. I can admit that Goji was starting to cross the line by brainstorming ideas on getting a party member killed, but he isn't completely wrong either. Why are the tanks sometimes assumed to be mind readers? Double pulls are sometimes different from wall to wall pulls at the start of a dungeon. Some players do not know how to rotate the cooldowns to do wall to wall. As for Lucy, the point I see right is for new or rusty players to speak up too. Sometimes the group is saved from a wipe if the others at least get the chance to teach the important points. Other than that, being passive aggressive with rescue pulls on sprout tanks might scare them off from the role instead. Whether they choose to group with friends only or give up on the role, both still means the queue times get worse.

[HeulGDarian]

It's rare for me to actually see single pulling tanks if they are not sprouts. From my experience for the Primal Data Centre, tanks tend to default to at least a double group pull whenever possible. If the enemies don't move like the Satasha clam room or AoE DPS is almost nonexistent, then everyone is better off with single pulls. At times for me, it is wall to wall off the bat. Maybe the PvE Mentor symbol has something to do with it for me? Not sure. I still remember a tank stating at the start he only pulls big, so brace yourself. I confirmed everything will be fine as the healer.

At this point, it's sometimes hard to tell whose side every poster is really on. The arguing is starting to get senseless. I can admit that Goji was starting to cross the line by brainstorming ideas on getting a party member killed, but he isn't completely wrong either. Why are the tanks sometimes assumed to be mind readers? Double pulls are sometimes different from wall to wall pulls at the start of a dungeon. Some players do not know how to rotate the cooldowns to do wall to wall. As for Lucy, the point I see right is for new or rusty players to speak up too. Sometimes the group is saved from a wipe if the others at least get the chance to teach the important points. Other than that, being passive aggressive with rescue pulls on sprout tanks might scare them off from the role instead. Whether they choose to group with friends only or give up on the role, both still means the queue times get worse.

im starting to get confused , i thought wall to wall is pulling from the start till however much the game allows you. In that case most dungeons especially newer ones have 2 groups of mobs to pull . as for the sastasha stuff i have to confess iv ever gone to that one room solo and game still hasnt given me the map achievement xD

[Goji1639]

If you want to pull small then *say so*. 9 times out of 10 people will accommodate you. If you say nothing, however, and simply small pull from the bat then you've no one to blame but yourself when you get Rescue'd into another pack.

I'm not against tanks asking at the start if they want to single pull, but I do find it funny how Rescue pulling when you don't like the tank is apparently a thing for healers. Half of you pretend I'm crazy and Rescue is never abused, and half of you seem to think the ability exists just so you can push people around with it. I'm more convinced than ever they should let people opt out of being Rescued, if not just remove the ability entirely.

I am still curious if a Healer would actually ask me to pull big if I wasn't, or if they'd all just resort to passive aggressive moaning and harassment like the Healers on this forum. I need to try this.

[Avidria]

im starting to get confused , i thought wall to wall is pulling from the start till however much the game allows you. In that case most dungeons especially newer ones have 2 groups of mobs to pull . as for the sastasha stuff i have to confess iv ever gone to that one room solo and game still hasnt given me the map achievement xD

Quite a few dungeons actually have more than two packs at a time to pull at once - off the top of my head, Bardam's mettle actually has four iirc (possibly five?) if you want to genuinely wall to wall the first pull of the dungeon (counting the big angry rat looking dude as a separate pack because he patrols alone). Most groups that pull the first three I actually see struggle or wipe, but that's its own thing.

I personally tend to stick to 2-3 packs at a time whether that's technically wall to wall or not, because that's where my comfort level is especially on tanks I'm leveling and not familiar with and doubly especially if I don't know the healer. The only time I genuinely wall to wall pull is when I queued up with friends, and personally I don't tank expert roulettes period unless I'm queueing with friends and one of them is healing.

I'm not against tanks asking at the start if they want to single pull, but I do find it funny how Rescue pulling when you don't like the tank is apparently a thing for healers. Half of you pretend I'm crazy and Rescue is never abused, and half of you seem to think the ability exists just so you can push people around with it. I'm more convinced than ever they should let people opt out of being Rescued, if not just remove the ability entirely.

I'm fairly ambivalent toward whether rescue should be removed, because I personally rarely see it getting abused (and it's usually my friends messing with each other when I do...) and my real problem with it is actually the absurd spell delay that makes it feel like it's useless half the time for genuine last minute rescues. It feels like something that should work as an oh crap button, but in my experience it usually fails to actually save the person or sometimes fails to even move them at all purely because of how the spell functions.

But it's also interesting to note that the concept of letting people opt out is not new. WoW let's you opt out of the effects of Leap of Faith, which is its equivalent spell that I... don't believe has been removed? They added an item years ago that makes you immune to LoF, an item that swaps place with another player, and WoW's near equivalent of shirk all at once. The same debate went on over there as in this thread ofc, but hey... if you opt out and die because a genuine attempt to help you failed, that's on you at that point.