Healers who rescue pull tanks into mobs.

[Kalker]

Hmm.. it's always bothered me that people would demonize tanks for having that "you tank it, you spank it" mentality since that was their way to dictate the run. But magically it's okay to dictate a run by using rescue. A little too much hypocrisy happening...

No real hypocrisy happening here. "You pull it, you tank it" is just a straight up awful mentality to have regardless of your views on rescuing a tank into a mob pack.

Both of which are a non issue anyways if you just pull everything in the first place like you're supposed to do.

Back to the main subject, I personally will ask on chat for bigger pulls if the tank is single pulling (or just bail depending on my mood).

That said rescue is pretty useful and I tend to use it quite a bit. I always keep an eye out for people not running away from Ancient Flare and rescue them, particularly if they're a sprout. Usually saves them, rarely doesn't.

Boss roomwides are also a great use for rescue if the ranged DPS are all the way in Narnia and I placed asylum around the boss. BLM kinda sorta has an excuse if they've placed their leylines, but SMN/RDM have no such excuse and neither do the ranged physical DPS, so I'll just rescue them into the bubble. If they run away again oh well, not my loss. I won't waste a GCD on them (although maybe an ocgd) so if they die it's their own fault.

[Goji1639]

No real hypocrisy happening here. "You pull it, you tank it" is just a straight up awful mentality to have regardless of your views on rescuing a tank into a mob pack.

Both of which are a non issue anyways if you just pull everything in the first place like you're supposed to do.

Actually, there's plenty of hypocrisy. Promoting a system where everyone runs in different directions and makes their own pulls isn't efficient; it just makes the tanks life harder.

Pulling more stuff after the group has already assumed the pull is finished, or yanking the tank around with Rescue, just causes confusion and annoyance. It's not helpful.

If you can handle bigger pulls you say so at the start of the dungeon, when you're all sitting in chat just waiting for the dungeon to start anyways. That's optimal. The tank encouraging a style where everyone makes their own pulls by humoring it doesn't help anyone.

If it's an accident you pick it up. Otherwise I think 'you spank it you tank it' is perfectly reasonable.

Edit: Actually, I feel like there's 1 exception. If the healer runs ahead, pulls more mobs and brings them to me I generally don't have a problem with it, because at the end of the day he's only making his life more difficult.

Rescue pulling is completely different, however. That repositions the entire pull, which screws over the DPS and disorients the tank. Only a crap healer would do that.

Now the DPS should NOT be pulling at all. Bigger pulls make the tank and healers life more difficult; so those 2 roles should be deciding the pull sizes based on what they feel they can handle. If a DPS spanks it he should be ready to tank it.

[HeulGDarian]

Actually, there's plenty of hypocrisy. Promoting a system where everyone runs in different directions and makes their own pulls isn't efficient; it just makes the tanks life harder.

Pulling more stuff after the group has already assumed the pull is finished, or yanking the tank around with Rescue, just causes confusion and annoyance. It's not helpful.

If you can handle bigger pulls you say so at the start of the dungeon, when you're all sitting in chat just waiting for the dungeon to start anyways. That's optimal. The tank encouraging a style where everyone makes their own pulls by humoring it doesn't help anyone.

If it's an accident you pick it up. Otherwise I think 'you spank it you tank it' is perfectly reasonable.

the thing is that there is no difference between one pull and pull everything besides hitting a cooldown and needing a bit more heal , so unless your gear or the healers is complete garbage then you got no excuse to not to, its not even stressful ,which is why its quite aggravating to hear the excuse of "its just a different playstyle".

[Goji1639]

the thing is that there is no difference between one pull and pull everything besides hitting a cooldown and needing a bit more heal , so unless your gear or the healers is complete garbage then you got no excuse to not to, its not even stressful ,which is why its quite aggravating to hear the excuse of "its just a different playstyle".

I've seen big pulls fail plenty, and it's usually because of the healer. Not a shot at healers, they just play the most critical role in the success of a wall to wall pull.

If the healer can handle big pulls he should speak up at the beginning and say so. Otherwise the tank has no reason to assume he can.

[Yue_Amariyo]

the thing is that there is no difference between one pull and pull everything besides hitting a cooldown and needing a bit more heal , so unless your gear or the healers is complete garbage then you got no excuse to not to, its not even stressful ,which is why its quite aggravating to hear the excuse of "its just a different playstyle".

i found large pulling to be stresssful because of auto bots type playstyles. as in.. ppl so jaded by their level they run on auto pilot and assume all tanks can handle things. I actually made a macro to turn off regen mid pull. it makes no sense to regen before pull

mmo require communication. not assumptions.

[Awha]

i found large pulling to be stresssful because of auto bots type playstyles. as in.. ppl so jaded by their level they run on auto pilot and assume all tanks can handle things. I actually made a macro to turn off regen mid pull. it makes no sense to regen before pull

mmo require communication. not assumptions.

If you are quick with your aoe, having a regen placed on you is not the end of the world and it does free up an extra gcd or two during the start of the pull after they have been gathered. Far from ideal, and could be a tad annoying especially when mobs are widely spaced apart, but at times regen pre pull can be handy when it comes to allowing a healer to get some extra damage in.

Overall though this would be less of an issue I think if people just used the vote kick feature more. Somewhat relevant story an FC member asked if someone heal for them because they got vote kicked from a two different groups. I was bored so said sure, right off the bat I notioned why they were removed after the 5 min mark. This man was slow, being as they were an FC member i had a tad more tolerate so I tried to help them out but they shared this classic view tanks set the pace, larger pulls are stressful, his rig could not handle it etc . . .

I ended up voting to remove an FC member, truth be tols talking and requesting things of strangers personally is just too much of a hassle. Sure you may be told sure but you also may be ignored or told to fuck off. I rather avoid that situation all together and ho with the vote kick method hopefully sooner or later the person will learn or find like minded players that align with them more.

[Kalker]

Actually, there's plenty of hypocrisy. Promoting a system where everyone runs in different directions and makes their own pulls isn't efficient; it just makes the tanks life harder.

Pulling more stuff after the group has already assumed the pull is finished, or yanking the tank around with Rescue, just causes confusion and annoyance. It's not helpful.

If you can handle bigger pulls you say so at the start of the dungeon, when you're all sitting in chat just waiting for the dungeon to start anyways. That's optimal. The tank encouraging a style where everyone makes their own pulls by humoring it doesn't help anyone.

If it's an accident you pick it up. Otherwise I think 'you spank it you tank it' is perfectly reasonable.

Edit: Actually, I feel like there's 1 exception. If the healer runs ahead, pulls more mobs and brings them to me I generally don't have a problem with it, because at the end of the day he's only making his life more difficult.

Rescue pulling is completely different, however. That repositions the entire pull, which screws over the DPS and disorients the tank. Only a crap healer would do that.

Now the DPS should NOT be pulling at all. Bigger pulls make the tank and healers life more difficult; so those 2 roles should be deciding the pull sizes based on what they feel they can handle. If a DPS spanks it he should be ready to tank it.

You're quite right actually, making everyone pull is inefficient. Instead the tank should, y'know, do their job and pull everything.

And please, "make the tank's life harder"? How so? Are the extra mobs going to make you break a sweat and press buttons twice as fast? Be it a group or 3, all you have to is press a mitigation button every 15s and spam your two button aoe + gauge spender.

If pulling more mobs makes you melt faster than your healer can heal you, the rest of the party isn't the problem. You are.

And like I said, you can both think that "You pull you tank" is a garbage mentality and that rescue pulling is a mildly rude thing to do.

Obligatory this doesn't apply to sprouts, no I'm not expecting wall to wall pulls in Sastasha, etc, etc.

[Goji1639]

You're quite right actually, making everyone pull is inefficient. Instead the tank should, y'know, do their job and pull everything.

And please, "make the tank's life harder"? How so? Are the extra mobs going to make you break a sweat and press buttons twice as fast? Be it a group or 3, all you have to is press a mitigation button every 15s and spam your two button aoe + gauge spender.

If pulling more mobs makes you melt faster than your healer can heal you, the rest of the party isn't the problem. You are.

And like I said, you can both think that "You pull you tank" is a garbage mentality and that rescue pulling is a mildly rude thing to do.

Obligatory this doesn't apply to sprouts, no I'm not expecting wall to wall pulls in Sastasha, etc, etc.

It does make the tanks life harder, though. I've seen plenty of instances where a DPS attacks a new group, which goes right after the healer because regen ticks, forcing the tank to chase them down. It's amazing how many people don't have the presence of mind to run mobs to the tank if they take aggro.

"You pull you tank," is a mentality that teaches DPS that they're not supposed to pull. That's useful, because they're NOT SUPPOSED TO PULL.

I've also seen plenty of instances where the tank massive pulls and the healer takes a nice, relaxing, slow walk up to the fight a mile behind him and everyone else, and then proceed to DPS until the tank is nearly dead, and then proceeds to panic spam their weakest, fastest hard cast heal to crappy effect until the tank is dead.

There's no reason to assume a healer can handle big pulls. If you want big pulls you ask for them.

[Kalker]

It does make the tanks life harder, though. I've seen plenty of instances where a DPS attacks a new group, which goes right after the healer because regen ticks, forcing the tank to chase them down. It's amazing how many people don't have the presence of mind to run mobs to the tank if they take aggro.

It really doesn't though. I would know because I leveled all my tanks to 80 by spamming dungeons and it was quite literally never a problem.
All tanks can provoke and all tanks can use ranged attacks (which even has an enmity bonus too).

"You pull you tank," is a mentality that teaches DPS that they're not supposed to pull. That's useful, because they're NOT SUPPOSED TO PULL.

DPS can't pull if you already pulled all the mobs. *taps forehead*

I've seen plenty of instances where the tank massive pulls and the healers taking a nice, relaxing walk up to the fight a mile behind him and everyone else, and then proceed to DPS until the tank is nearly dead, and then proceed to panic spam their weakest, fastest hard cast heal to crappy effect until the tank is dead.

There's no reason to assume a healer can handle big pulls. If you want big pulls you ask for them.

I'm sorry for your healers being bad I guess. Explain them how to use their toolkit or kick them if they don't want to improve I guess.