Stablizing the market(stop undercutting everyone people!)

[Yves]

I actually have never really bothered to sell anything. For a time period I sold Hart and Crab for 10k just to open the market to lower players. Aside from that I just make stuff for free for people I know. If I have the mats I even provide them. To me there is economy and there is also community. But I think a large function of this phenomena is that people are working on luminary tools. And a lot of players are working on multiples at once (mining and armorer.) From this standpoint they are making a profit.

Either way, it'll simmer down over time.

To be honest, I'm in favor of a socialist economy in MMOs. Hell, we might as well REALLY live in a fantasy world.

[lackofwords]

There's a few things you can do.

If you have the items you wish to sell now, and have spent X amount of gil on the materials to craft it.

1. Cut your loses and sell the item for lower value.
2. Wait it out and hope the market value for the item rises again.

Problem with the second one is if the materials prices happens to also drop in value, then that could also lead to the possibility of the finished item to drop even more in price.

There is no sense in crafting anything that makes you lose gil if you aren't doing it for the EXP, or as a gift for someone. No sense telling people to stop undercutting it either.

Undercutting can be several factors, but most common is an abundant supply with no demand. Such as items that can be obtained from guildleves, treasure chest, and drops. Those items would be flooded in the market, and everyone can easily obtain them.

Saying the value of the equipment should be solely based on the value of the materials, which is arbitrarily decided by the DoL merchants, is crazy. Need to consider the value of the equipment compare to others. Such as if an item is priced 100k but a player can obtain a similar item or better for less or even "free" by doing quest, then the value of the 100k item would drop in price.

A lot of times the material can be more costly than the end equipment also because of what the material can be used for. However, if you there isn't any demand for the materials, eventually the DoL people will realize and lower the price accordingly. Thus, the materials cost will be more closely reflected to the potential equipment it can become.

I said before, FFXI had a lot of this happen to their equipments.
Just take a look a material like Dhalmel Leather A good portion of the things it can be crafted into is made as a lost.

[Mychael]

There's a few things you can do.
Undercutting can be several factors, but most common is an abundant supply with no demand.

But the problem is, we're not investors, marketing agents, etc. People don't get economics very well in this game. Some people would rather have fast money than more money, so they undercut--not because there's a higher supply than demand, just because they want theirs to be listed at the top and sold 3 hours earlier than it otherwise would have. It doesn't matter if it's an item that sells 40 times a day or two times a day. Then some people don't read the price history and match that price, and someone undercuts it again. At least, that's the best I can tell.

This is made worse by the abundance of materials, because those who farm them are willing to sell so much lower than those who don't.

Someone nailed it on the head earlier. It all comes down to exp. You're paying for exp, or you're paying for [item] of the Luminary. I don't like it, but what am I to do?

[Jashynvald]

this has nothing to do with exp, at all

are you gonna tell me? seriously? that im doing this for exp?

this is an issue regardless of level, its plain just not worth it to craft anymore if people are going to make all items worth less then the value of what it takes to make them


im not looking at grinding recipes, im looking at ALL recipes and the trend its taking

I'm not saying it's a good trend, but that's part of the thought process when people evaluate what to pay for and it does explain why (or at least part of why) raw mats are so damn expensive compared to the already processed ones.

[lackofwords]

Some people would rather have fast money than more money, so they undercut--not because there's a higher supply than demand, just because they want theirs to be listed at the top and sold 3 hours earlier than it otherwise would have. It doesn't matter if it's an item that sells 40 times a day or two times a day.

Yes, there are few players who just wants to get rid of their gear quickly. The only market that is successful is Ul'dah, and it's retainer floor population packed 24/7. The only options for people trying to get into the market who aren't already on the market floor are the stalls. Those are just by lease for a day, which forces the player to pretty much sell as much as possible as fast as possible.

However, those merchants shouldn't hurt the larger economy. Such as, if the demand is really as high as it is, then a merchant who sells a small stock of equipment, would not affect the larger stockpile of equipment still for sale. You might see a small dip in the sale price history, and then it'll always quickly return to it's median value. (Honey as example from FFXI)

The people who hurt the market are the people with large enough supplies to influence the market. Such as, if a merchant is able to pump out 100+ of the same equipment and wants to get rid of it all for cheap so he can produce more of the same thing, that'll obviously hurt the value of the item. Luminary could fuel the problem of this particular case.

Alternatively, if you are extremely aggressive, you could just buy out all those cheap stock and resell it at your own value. That is if you truly believe that the supplier(s) is just a selling fast for a quick buck. Such as if you see something really cheap, like lanolin selling for 100 on the Market Wards (lanolin sells back to an NPC for 96) you can buy out that stock with very minimal risk of losing gil. (At most 4gil per piece if it doesn't sell on the wards)

[Jin_]

So... right now... don't craft and sell? Ya it seem be dumb... but if you aren't going for xp.... obv yo uneed to find another way to make gil.

Time to learn to gather!

And really, like XI the HQ were the only profit..... I buy +1's for melding

I buy cheap shit retards sell, and SB it into awesome materia....

I make shit for my friends, they give me raw materials.

The worst bank breaker for me is the catalyst since I'm not high enough to proc the trait to get em at the grade5 areas.

Coethras, lots of money in there, it's not part of the luminary.



P.S. plz link me where DoH = gil? I swear it was just to craft items. Just like anima, and hate meters.... don't like it? Don't use it!

[Bowen]

As great as this may sound, what you consider a "fair price" may not be what someone else considers fair. It's a POV and as we all have seen if you have been on these forums at ALL is, people are pretty damn defensive with their "POVs".

I see your point. xD
What I mean is, we should all decide what a fair price is based off of how they are obtained. Then compare them with the MW prices.
THEN, we share our prices with eachother and come up with a fair price. I'm sure not everyone would be pleased though. xD

[Yves]

I see your point. xD
What I mean is, we should all decide what a fair price is based off of how they are obtained. Then compare them with the MW prices.
THEN, we share our prices with eachother and come up with a fair price. I'm sure not everyone would be pleased though. xD

This is actually a cartel. This is what oil companies do. No, this should not be done - it allows those who are in production to dictate the market which is an absolutely horrid prospect. Why not let people sell for that which they deem to be fair?

Look at it this way: someone can farm their own mats and and produce their own goods, thus making a 30k profit with only time being their investment. This means that 30k could potentially be the price and can be done without overhead. On the other hand, another player may not be able to farm and must sell the same item for 60k in order to achieve the same profit. There is nothing wrong with that. Yes, one player may have the resources to do it (time) while another may not. Does that mean they should be penalized and have to conform to a cartel mentality? You can argue that by being in a cartel the player would be making more money, however, what if they feel 60k is too much and that 30k is the fair price? Should they be forced to accept your viewpoint? If you answer "yes" then you must also be willing to do the same. See the problem here?

Edit: This reasoning is based on the CI which dictates that one "ought only to act according maxims that one would deem universally accepted."

[TheVedis]

This is actually a cartel. This is what oil companies do. No, this should not be done - it allows those who are in production to dictate the market which is an absolutely horrid prospect. Why not let people sell for that which they deem to be fair?

Look at it this way: someone can farm their own mats and and produce their own goods, thus making a 30k profit with only time being their investment. This means that 30k could potentially be the price and can be done without overhead. On the other hand, another player may not be able to farm and must sell the same item for 60k in order to achieve the same profit. There is nothing wrong with that. Yes, one player may have the resources to do it (time) while another may not. Does that mean they should be penalized and have to conform to a cartel mentality? You can argue that by being in a cartel the player would be making more money, however, what if they feel 60k is too much and that 30k is the fair price? Should they be forced to accept your viewpoint? If you answer "yes" then you must also be willing to do the same. See the problem here?

Edit: This reasoning is based on the CI which dictates that one "ought only to act according maxims that one would deem universally accepted."

using your example in the current issue

player a who farms his own mats is dumb for making the item to sell, he coulda sold the mats for 60k, but he chose to make the item and thus his effort becomes 30k

while player b who bought all the mats, can only sell it if he takes a massive loss, thus making it not worth doing it at all, its imposible for him to profit in the given situation no matter what he does

[syntaxlies]

using your example in the current issue

player a who farms his own mats is dumb for making the item to sell, he coulda sold the mats for 60k, but he chose to make the item and thus his effort becomes 30k

while player b who bought all the mats, can only sell it if he takes a massive loss, thus making it not worth doing it at all, its imposible for him to profit in the given situation no matter what he does

this was my point earlier in the thread when i responded to someone who said you aren't suppose to profit from crafting or something like that,lol.