Boy is the Zeta weapon grind dumb

[Tsaranoga]

@MikkoAkure
So, why do the new relics require for me to have completed a raid? It's not a problem, i won't do them, just curious.

[MikkoAkure]

@MikkoAkure
So, why do the new relics require for me to have completed a raid? It's not a problem, i won't do them, just curious.

Ivalice is not a real raid... We've already had an entire thread about how these are not the same thing. If you want to compare the difficulty of Ivalice or any of the 24-person content to actual savage difficulty raids, you are either a troll or you're deluded and you haven't run either content. Bringing that up also doesn't really make any sense when past relics ask you to go into 24-person "raids" to gather light as well. Both relics and Crystal Tower/Mhach/Ivalice/Nier are developed as "casual" content. If attempting to do one of those is too much for you, then you shouldn't be doing the other.

[Stepjam]

@MikkoAkure
So, why do the new relics require for me to have completed a raid? It's not a problem, i won't do them, just curious.

"Raid" is a misnomer. XIV has 3 types of content with the word "raid" in them, but only one of them is proper "raiding" as in hardcore content. Alliance raids and Normal raids are both casual content, as in they can and should be completed during your first time running them without needing to read or watch a guide. There may be a few wipes, but if you run out of time in the instance, something is going horribly wrong.

Then there's Savage raiding which is proper hardcore raiding where you need to have fight knowledge and will no doubt wipe a lot, requiring possibly weeks of practice to clear. Aside from Binding Coil which was when Squeenix was still figuring things out, there is nothing besides BiS gear and mounts (and in one case a minion) locked behind savage, story content and other things are just in normal raids.

There is no reason to be afraid of alliance raids. You should go run crystal tower if you need proof of that, it's almost 100% face roll at this point (though ironically it used to have serious mechanics before overgearing made it a joke). It'll be a good way to ease into Alliance Raids if you are nervous about them, especially since it's becoming mandatory next patch.

[Avidria]

Still several hundred times better than the Eureka grind, though!

(Yes, I would rather do one fun-at-first thing (say, run a dungeon) 500 times than do one was-never-fun thing (say, stand in one spot and hit damage sponge mobs) 50 times. Why?)

Yeah I'm still having a hard time trying to even motivate myself to go back into Eureka at all, even though there's a ton of stuff I want in there. It sounded unappealing from the beginning, but after an hour of taking an age and a half to kill anything alone and getting zero responses to trying to form the group you apparently needed to get anywhere, and then trying to follow a fate group, dying, and still being ignored... I left and never went back. :/

@MikkoAkure
So, why do the new relics require for me to have completed a raid? It's not a problem, i won't do them, just curious.

You don't have to be a raider to clear an alliance raid. For most of them you barely even have to be awake. God knows some people sure aren't.

[Barraind]

You don't have to be a raider to clear an alliance raid. For most of them you barely even have to be awake. God knows some people sure aren't.

Its why Ivalice is the worst of them.

You only need 4 awake people per alliance for the other sets, but Ivalice requires 6 (or 5 if one of them isnt a healer and you alternate rescues onto the STAND HERE PLEASE patch)

[RyuSaarva]

@MikkoAkure
So, why do the new relics require for me to have completed a raid? It's not a problem, i won't do them, just curious.

1 very simple reason because a character from that story is in the level 80 relic story.

[Stanelis]

The whole point of relic weapons are to have an avenue to get highest ilvl without being a raider. When it was relevant content, the parts of the quest released in chunks to make it more palatable, but you were still trading time and your sanity for not having to do some of the hardest content in the game. If relic were less of a slog, there would be less point for people to do savage.

If you’re complaining about this now, over half a decade after it stopped being relevant, that’s on you, not the game. No one is forcing you to do this.

Even when it was released in its prime, as parts, it was horrible "content" due to how much dungeons/stuff you had to do to unlock some steps. I calculated back in the day that if you were to only do a reasonable amount of dungeons for one of the step each day, the next step would have been released before you completed the step for merely one weapon.

I made a zeta back in the day because I belevied SE would give special gameplay effects to the final step weapon, like how it used to be in FFXI or FFXIV V1, but never again will I do such a grind for merely a weapon with inflated ilvelvel that serves no purposes if you re not a raider.

to begin it at all. This is just lousy, sloppy content of the first order.
If you think the ff14 one is bad, hate what you would say to the ff11 relic. At launch took 5 years to complete, unless you was rich.

The difference with FFXI is that the insane grind in FFXI was well worth the effort. The relics were very powerful so the grind was justified. Additionally, they did remain current for years, not just 3 month at best (generally, it s less for relic weapons in FFXIV).

[Gunspec]

I kind of wish they'd bring back the old style of relic quest. Hear me out.

Relic quests in 2.X and 3.X were designed to help prop up the rest of the game's design by forcing max level players to engage in a variety of content that might otherwise die out. Fate grinding in unpopular zones for Atma, running a specific series of dungeons and trials, levequests, steps that required crafting and desynth, etc. It got players out in the world, engaging in the various game mechanics, and ensured that new players would always encounter content that was still being run by seasoned players.

Now we've got an enormous amount of content that exists, and no one touches any of it. There's a ton of dungeons and trials in the game, but roulette queue only ever dumps you in storyline required fights. And when was the last time you saw anyone touching fates after Heavensward? When was the last time you spent an hour in any of the zones in the game?

The zones keep getting larger, but the areas are underutilized and thus forgettable. Relic quests that get us engaged in the zone content would really make the game feel more alive. I'm helping a friend level her first Zodiac weapon right now, and I know each of the 2.X zones so intimately from farming relic weapons before. It's almost shocking how that changes between 2.X and 4.X.

[TeraRamis]

I kind of wish they'd bring back the old style of relic quest. Hear me out.

Relic quests in 2.X and 3.X were designed to help prop up the rest of the game's design by forcing max level players to engage in a variety of content that might otherwise die out. Fate grinding in unpopular zones for Atma, running a specific series of dungeons and trials, levequests, steps that required crafting and desynth, etc. It got players out in the world, engaging in the various game mechanics, and ensured that new players would always encounter content that was still being run by seasoned players.

Now we've got an enormous amount of content that exists, and no one touches any of it. There's a ton of dungeons and trials in the game, but roulette queue only ever dumps you in storyline required fights. And when was the last time you saw anyone touching fates after Heavensward? When was the last time you spent an hour in any of the zones in the game?

The zones keep getting larger, but the areas are underutilized and thus forgettable. Relic quests that get us engaged in the zone content would really make the game feel more alive. I'm helping a friend level her first Zodiac weapon right now, and I know each of the 2.X zones so intimately from farming relic weapons before. It's almost shocking how that changes between 2.X and 4.X.

I really would like to see fate grinding return. Back in 2015 etc., it made the game world feel so alive - zones were always mobbed with groups running from fate to fate. And the camaraderie and competition that developed between different groups was nifty.

As you said, today's zones feel huge, empty, and desolate. I tend to believe flying was a mistake, too - it serves no real purpose, other than to oblige the designers to expand maps to accommodate the mounts, thus decreasing overall detail density in the process.

And for what? So we can fly when we're done with the stupid zone? I fly, maybe, once per day - 90% of my time is still spent in non-flying zones anyway.

[TheGrimace]

I just hate light phases. Light phases have sucked and always will suck. Even worse when the game puts arbitrary limits on what can give light or not, depending on the level of content.

Everything else I find manageable.