Why people still USE ACT knowing their breaking TOS ??

[MichiPichi]

I think the thought is if they add it to the game, then it becomes required, and people cant escape it.

Not that I agree with people being dead weights, but it is what it is.

I guess that makes a little more sense but didn't they think that it would just be required "unofficially"? People can just bug you in discord, which a lot of raids/FCs require. In the end you're right "it is what it is" theres just a lot of holes in their logic.

[Awha]

I guess that makes a little more sense but didn't they think that it would just be required "unofficially"? People can just bug you in discord, which a lot of raids/FCs require. In the end you're right "it is what it is" theres just a lot of holes in their logic.

Dev team has never really been logical.

[Seraphor]

It's the best of both worlds.

If they enforce this rule, raiders quit.

If they implement parsers, casuals quit.

[Eldevern]

I don't like non-official/third-part programs then I don't use it but a parser is still usefull to make a idea of our efficiency. Unfortunatly it is also used a toxic way. We miss some kind of ingame personal parser (that shouldn't be that hard to develop since it is mainly base on logs that are already in the fight chat tab).

[Espritduo]

Having a site for logs at all eliminates that possibility entirely. If you opted out of FFlogs entirely then people will think you're hiding something. The only solution to the problem you're bringing up is taking down the entire website, but, there's a myriad of reasons as to why that would be a terrible idea.

The obvious solution is to make the default setting opt-in, as it should have always been. That way people not on there aren't assumed to be "hiding something" (which is always the assumption others are going to have for anyone purposely opting out of anything), they are just not a user of the site. Like suggested, their spot in groups that are uploaded would just be listed as a generic "Filler Job Here" with no personal information shared. The only people FFlogs should track and show are the people who want to be there. As a PS4 player who has never used fflogs, I still have various uploads randomly all over the place from random runs on there that I have no control over, and that isn't right at all. I mean, most of them are ok parses because I'm generally good at my job, but still it irks me to see stuff there without my consent and without any ability to upload my own logs.

The fact that SE already does this with things such as achievement scores should show that it is the professional thing to do. The default setting for achievements on the lodestone is hidden. People that want others to see their achievement scores have to purposely check off to have them visible to others if that is what they want. Which is the way anything that is primarily going to be used to compare with others should always be where possible.

[Videra]

The obvious solution is to make the default setting opt-in, as it should have always been. That way people not on there aren't assumed to be "hiding something" (which is always the assumption others are going to have for anyone purposely opting out of anything), they are just not a user of the site. Like suggested, their spot in groups that are uploaded would just be listed as a generic "Filler Job Here" with no personal information shared. The only people FFlogs should track and show are the people who want to be there. As a PS4 player who has never used fflogs, I still have various uploads randomly all over the place from random runs on there that I have no control over, and that isn't right at all. I mean, most of them are ok parses because I'm generally good at my job, but still it irks me to see stuff there without my consent and without any ability to upload my own logs.

The fact that SE already does this with things such as achievement scores should show that it is the professional thing to do. The default setting for achievements on the lodestone is hidden. People that want others to see their achievement scores have to purposely check off to have them visible to others if that is what they want. Which is the way anything that is primarily going to be used to compare with others should always be where possible.

To be completely frank with you, people would still look at you with suspicion if FFlogs was opt-in. It would arguably be even worse because you're being denied entry based on a tool you didn't even know existed. That said, I don't agree with the ability to opt-out of FFlogs being there in the first place, as it's a trap that hurts the person who does it. I should add that being denied entry from a PF group for whatever content you are doing is reasonable if you have poor logs, and the party lead doesn't want to carry you? Then they are not obliged to do so.

As to why people use ACT? Because SE knows that the raiding community would quit on the spot if they enforced their TOS. And ACT is simply a useful tool for self/group improvement, regardless of the near-mythical parser toxicity.

[Xatsh]

People use them because the fights require a certain dps check to clear. This has caused them to be the end all be all of endgame in ffxiv because of this. Getting that elusive top parse spot has become additional content for alot of the endgame community due to lack of anything else to do. (aka the parse runs and going for that golden parse). And yes a lot of raid groups when they fill a spot require you to be in the top 10% on fflogs, and yes if you ever done an EX or savage you are on ff logs even if you do not want to be because someone has uploaded their parse with you on it.

Personally I do not care about parsers as they can be helpful for yourself and groups not just in ffxiv but all themepark style mmos that focus on dps numbers. The problem is I would say is 90% + of the population has absolutely no clue on how to use them correctly. Big numbers has become of greater importance then clearing in party finder these days and that is wrong. People blatantly skip mechanics, do harder more high risk mechanics, doing more complicated strategies, dps refuse to limit break, and so on all all for the sake of getting higher parsers to upload. In the end people sacrifice clear rate and progression so that some dps and tanks can get 15secs more uptime to get a little higher parse log.

And honestly my biggest gripe about parses. You see people in initial progression focusing almost purely on DPS output instead of learning the mechanics. This causes progression to grind to a halt because people are too stupid to learn the fight and only look at parse logs during it. How many times in progression do you see people dead and the rdm/smn just nuking away instead of getting ppl up to keep dps up. A healer and others dead and a pld dying because their heal is a dps loss. Healers in prog using swiftcast to dps instead of saving for rez. People dying over and over and over to simple mechanics because they are trying to GREED 1 more gcd that in the end does not matter at all. People not using "Oh ****" abilities because they need them to cheese for an uptime mechanic later in the fight that is not really needed at all to clear but can add a whole 7secs more uptime..... This crap is getting worse and worse every expansion.

I sorta wish SE would add something to block parsers from running. I think the loss of that Epeen contest would do more good then bad for the entirety of the community. Raiding was alot more fun back in the ARR days before parsers became mainstream in this game. I honestly feel parsers and FFLogs made progression a lot worse then it use to be before they existed for the majority. At least in terms of initial learning and fight strategies are concerned.

[Drakeos]

People use them because the fights require a certain dps check to clear. This has caused them to be the end all be all of endgame in ffxiv because of this. Getting that elusive top parse spot has become additional content for alot of the endgame community due to lack of anything else to do. (aka the parse runs and going for that golden parse). And yes a lot of raid groups when they fill a spot require you to be in the top 10% on fflogs, and yes if you ever done an EX or savage you are on ff logs even if you do not want to be because someone has uploaded their parse with you on it.

Personally I do not care about parsers as they can be helpful for yourself and groups not just in ffxiv but all themepark style mmos that focus on dps numbers. The problem is I would say is 90% + of the population has absolutely no clue on how to use them correctly. Big numbers has become of greater importance then clearing in party finder these days and that is wrong. People blatantly skip mechanics, do harder more high risk mechanics, doing more complicated strategies, dps refuse to limit break, and so on all all for the sake of getting higher parsers to upload. In the end people sacrifice clear rate and progression so that some dps and tanks can get 15secs more uptime to get a little higher parse log.

And honestly my biggest gripe about parses. You see people in initial progression focusing almost purely on DPS output instead of learning the mechanics. This causes progression to grind to a halt because people are too stupid to learn the fight and only look at parse logs during it. How many times in progression do you see people dead and the rdm/smn just nuking away instead of getting ppl up to keep dps up. A healer and others dead and a pld dying because their heal is a dps loss. Healers in prog using swiftcast to dps instead of saving for rez. People dying over and over and over to simple mechanics because they are trying to GREED 1 more gcd that in the end does not matter at all. People not using "Oh ****" abilities because they need them to cheese for an uptime mechanic later in the fight that is not really needed at all to clear but can add a whole 7secs more uptime..... This crap is getting worse and worse every expansion.

I sorta wish SE would add something to block parsers from running. I think the loss of that Epeen contest would do more good then bad for the entirety of the community. Raiding was alot more fun back in the ARR days before parsers became mainstream in this game. I honestly feel parsers and FFLogs made progression a lot worse then it use to be before they existed for the majority. At least in terms of initial learning and fight strategies are concerned.

Kinda acually agree too many elitism and people only want top pasers for savage content if people acually learn mechanics and the fight instead of DPS race then yeah end game would be more enjoyable and not burning/stressing people out

[Videra]

Kinda acually agree too many elitism and people only want top pasers for savage content if people acually learn mechanics and the fight instead of DPS race then yeah end game would be more enjoyable and not burning/stressing people out

This anti-improvement mindset needs to die. You can do mechanics and parse purple at the same time, it's not that hard. ACT is a tool that factually helps people learn fights and improve if they care to actually look at the logs. Plus, yes - DPS meters do make the inherently competitive role of DPS more fun. Nothing about ACT stresses or burns people out, it's practically what makes optimization - which many find fun - possible.

[Avidria]

Kinda acually agree too many elitism and people only want top pasers for savage content if people acually learn mechanics and the fight instead of DPS race then yeah end game would be more enjoyable and not burning/stressing people out

I don't think that last line is necessarily true. The raid teams I've been a part of in that type of content have generally been fairly chill, and a big part of what made my time with them so enjoyable was that for the most part, the focus was on enjoying the content AND doing well - if things went bad and people started tilting, it was time to end raid night early. The focus was on learning mechanics first, because dps doesn't matter if you're dying to every other big hit - dead dps do no dps. Going for top parses when you're still on progression is illogical and counter productive. You go for that top slot when you know the fight or frankly you're just wasting everyone's time. Including your own.

When I got burnt out on raiding, it was not because it was a dps race. It was always the commitment and schedule of it, spending 2-3 hours 2-3 nights a week even when I was tired or wanted to do something else. That's why I haven't picked up raiding again since I stopped a couple years ago. Frankly not having a parser in this game is part of why too. I hate the idea of dragging the group down because I'm not performing, and blindly hoping I'm pulling decent numbers is extremely stressful in itself for me.