So, what's your opinion on current healer jobs

[Mindiori]

''As a smooth brain dps main I enjoy playing SCH now since it's alot easier to understand, similarly how I enjoy SMN now because it isn't a clusterfuck of different themes, outdated abilities and weirdness overall.''

Yeah great. Welcome to the reason everyone I did play with once, leaving SCH and the entire game. Pursuit of selfish preference scarcely ends well in MMO's. Especially when the thing thats broken, isn't your main or anything you give a damn about in the bigger picture.

[Ayer2015]

I don't care for the changes that were made to healers this expansion. The jobs are far too homogenized and there are too many redundant skills. Job mechanics shouldn't be tacked on as an after thought, but rather the core which the job is built around.

[Risvertasashi]

Really? I see most people begging to go back to HW healers more than I see people saying HW healers were bad. (except for maybe launch AST, which was just laughably weak, not complex.)

It really depends.

HW was the worst balance healers had ever seen. When seesawed from AST being utter garbage to WHM being utter garbage. SCH god tier the whole way through. End of SB was a bit comparable, but not as bad.

But it was also a time when a good healer could out DPS a bad DPS (which can't really happen now even if the DPS is dead for a minute+). And some people may have liked certain elements from HW. But anyone that wants a wholesale return to that period is looking at it through *very* rose tinted glasses.

[PharisHanasaki]

It really depends.

HW was the worst balance healers had ever seen. When seesawed from AST being utter garbage to WHM being utter garbage. SCH god tier the whole way through. End of SB was a bit comparable, but not as bad.

But it was also a time when a good healer could out DPS a bad DPS (which can't really happen now even if the DPS is dead for a minute+). And some people may have liked certain elements from HW. But anyone that wants a wholesale return to that period is looking at it through *very* rose tinted glasses.

I'm guessing you are only talking about savage in all intances. Sure they are now balanced, cuz they are mostly the same, but if we talk about them in regards to their playstyle in all instances (not everyone plays savage everyday), healers are now dull and boring. I'd rather have my old AST back.

[Ayesafaile]

Healers in Shadowbringers are dull, uninspired and overpowered.

Job identity has been stripped. Offensive play has been simplified for the second expansion in a row. More unnecessary off-global healing abilities have been added. Despite player health pool inflation, healing in Shadowbringers is the easiest it's ever been.

I get no joy out of playing healer outside of a raid environment, and even then my enjoyment is limited. I no longer want to push the envelope of my job, because the non-healing gameplay is utterly devoid of any aspects that could be considered interesting.

The current healer jobs feel like they're designed for people who don't play healer, and it's frustrating.

HW was the worst balance healers had ever seen. When seesawed from AST being utter garbage to WHM being utter garbage. SCH god tier the whole way through. End of SB was a bit comparable, but not as bad.

Healers were pretty balanced prior to 3.4. Problem was, there wasn't enough reason for career WHMs to give up and switch to AST, and SE are far more concerned with player metrics than they are with game balance, so AST got buffed through the roof and made "mandatory" for serious play with the release of Creator. Let's not pretend like anything has changed, though. AST is still the least played healer, despite clearly being the strongest.

If you're really concerned with Noct AST being viable, it's been fine since the start of Stormblood, but no one really wanted to push the envelope with the job after SCH was hotfixed to be less terrible.

AST is just a terrible healer from a conceptual standpoint. How do you balance a job that is supposed to be able to fill the role of two fundamentally different healers on equal footing (WHM and SCH) AND provide raid buffs? In Shadowbringers, the answer is to make it the best at everything. The complete reluctance to scrap Noct Sect has been a terrible design decision.

[PharisHanasaki]

AST is just a terrible healer from a conceptual standpoint. How do you balance a job that is supposed to be able to fill the role of two fundamentally different healers on equal footing (WHM and SCH) AND provide raid buffs? In Shadowbringers, the answer is to make it the best at everything. The complete reluctance to scrap Noct Sect has been a terrible design decision.

And that's the issue. AST was supposed to work with either cohealer. Even with another AST. It's not supposed to be a replacement for a SCH or WHM. Noct shields should not be expected to be the equivalent to SCH shields, because AST also brought buffs to the game.

But everyone obsesed with "perfection" and numbers. So they saw AST as a bad SCH, a bad WHM, a bad DPS, and a raid wide dmg buffer. I saw plenty of bad WHM and SCH during my raiding time in HW and StB. Even know. Also, do you know how many people knew about the arrow? It was so good when expanded in normal content, solo, and big pulls.

I honestly think scrapping Noct would be the final nail in the coffin.

[Lilseph]

Who's the majority you speak off? Most of us healer mains were fine. Other people who loved to dps hated it, but who cares, healers =/= dps.

It's partially because of the complaints and feedback about Healers refusing to do dps. While I liked Cleric Stance, it did push the skill floor a tad bit too high. It wasn't very accessible to most players and was super clunky to use for solo play unless you were Sch which the fairy completely bypasses the negative effects.

And that's the issue. AST was supposed to work with either cohealer. Even with another AST. It's not supposed to be a replacement for a SCH or WHM.

This basically. The potential issue regarding Healers is that the devs want any healer composition to function. It's not the same as balancing the other roles from what I can understand, and the main reason why duplicates don't synergise well together. A lot of it boils down to the fact that the devs have sectioned healing into either "pure healing" or "shield healing". If they introduce a fourth healer designated as a "shield healer" and force Ast into a permanent Diurnal Sect, then you'll never be able to run with a Whm/Ast comp because it wouldn't be feasible. Similarly, making all four healers have their own niche can possibly end up with similar results.

lAlso, do you know how many people knew about the arrow? It was so good when expanded in normal content, solo, and big pulls.

It was fun to use, but I don't think it'll work with how some of the jobs work right now especially Machinist. Back during Stormblood, I even raided with people who played jobs like Mch and Drg that had macros to forcibly click off Arrow and Fey Wind because it messes up rotation timings or something like that.

[Seraphor]

This basically. The potential issue regarding Healers is that the devs want any healer composition to function. It's not the same as balancing the other roles from what I can understand, and the main reason why duplicates don't synergise well together. A lot of it boils down to the fact that the devs have sectioned healing into either "pure healing" or "shield healing". If they introduce a fourth healer designated as a "shield healer" and force Ast into a permanent Diurnal Sect, then you'll never be able to run with a Whm/Ast comp because it wouldn't be feasible. Similarly, making all four healers have their own niche can possibly end up with similar results.

Likewise this new shield healer + SCH would be prohibitive.

They need to do what they've done with tanks (where any tank can MT or OT) and basically have all healers have a certain capacity for pure healing, regen and shields. And this seems to be what they're going for with the latest job forms.
AST now has two skills that do the opposite of their current sect, and WHM has a proper single target shield skill.
Of course SCH still has it's Tactics skills that turn shields into pure heals, and the fairy which is basically an elaborate regen, so SCH was kinda already there.
They just need to be able to differentiate them enough via job mechanics and dps skills.

With this in mind, I think the next healer should be based around a mechanic that allows them to use either regens or shields at will.

[PharisHanasaki]

It was fun to use, but I don't think it'll work with how some of the jobs work right now especially Machinist. Back during Stormblood, I even raided with people who played jobs like Mch and Drg that had macros to forcibly click off Arrow and Fey Wind because it messes up rotation timings or something like that.

Yes, I knew about this so I didn't use the arrow on such jobs. Again, outside of savage, I think it would work well with a lot of AoE combos on big pulls. At least it would be less boring than melee card, ranged card, melee card, ranged card, ranged card, melee card, divination, melee card...

[Mansion]

They need to do what they've done with tanks (where any tank can MT or OT) and basically have all healers have a certain capacity for pure healing, regen and shields. And this seems to be what they're going for with the latest job forms.

I kind of agree, although WHM still got left behind there as Divine Benison isn't comparable to SCH's regens on the fairy and Sacred Soil (plus its direct heals).

The Regen vs Shield mentality has to go. I actually like what they did to AST with Intersection and Neutral Sect, the Cooldowns on these abilities are enough not to make them OP, and it brings a bit more planning and reflexion to AST (although you can still power heal with earthly Star almost everything significant). This could be expanded further into a real job identity, healing wise.

I also think shielding should change. In the current state where mitigation, oGCD heals and regens are so strong when used correctly, unless a particular damage NEEDS shielding, GCD shields are often a loss.