wow... rested experience just wow...

[Cynthis]

So, by your logic, if I only work 1 hour a day I should have my wage inflated so I bring home as much as you do in an 8 hour day?
...can I come work in your world?

No, having the free time to playing a game for fun, hopefully voluntarily, is a luxury. So that some people have more time to dedicate to it than others is, in the grand scheme of things, much more unfair than someone getting a few % bonus to their exp when they manage to find time to play.

[WilyKat]

No, having the free time to playing a game for fun, hopefully voluntarily, is a luxury. So that some people have more time to dedicate to it than others is, in the grand scheme of things, much more unfair than someone getting a few % bonus to their exp when they manage to find time to play.

My point was an analogy. I view FFXIV as a game; and I prefer my games to have an equal rule set for everyone. This is why I don't personally support inflating exp rewards for individuals who play less. I agree that playing this game is a luxury. It's a game. What I can't understand is how everyone arguing for fairness in the same breath where they're asking that some individuals are treated differently. Also, it's a game. I'll deal with the rules whatever they are- I don't have a lot vested either way regarding rested exp.

I do however, absolutely disagree that treating some people differently is equivalent to fairness.

[Ashthra]

My point was an analogy. I view FFXIV as a game; and I prefer my games to have an equal rule set for everyone. This is why I don't personally support inflating exp rewards for individuals who play less. I agree that playing this game is a luxury. It's a game. What I can't understand is how everyone arguing for fairness in the same breath where they're asking that some individuals are treated differently. Also, it's a game. I'll deal with the rules whatever they are- I don't have a lot vested either way regarding rested exp.

I do however, absolutely disagree that treating some people differently is equivalent to fairness.

It is fair, though -- if you were to stop playing for three days, the way that guy with a 40+ hour a week job may often have to, then you would accrue the exact same amount of rested experience he does. It is, for all intents and purposes, equal.

Frankly, I find all of this hilariously poetic. How many times was the casual player told over the years, "Nothing's stopping you from getting what you want out of [X game], just set aside the time to do it or don't cry about it!" and now, the moment a bone is thrown in their direction, they get to hear from the very same people that were telling them to suck it up, "HEY THAT ISN'T FAIR, WHY CAN'T I GET THAT?!"

Well. Nothing's stopping you from getting what you want out of FFXIV, just set aside the time to gain the rested exp, or don't cry about it.

[WilyKat]

It is fair, though -- if you were to stop playing for three days, the way that guy with a 40+ hour a week job may often have to, then you would accrue the exact same amount of rested experience he does. It is, for all intents and purposes, equal.

Frankly, I find all of this hilariously poetic. How many times was the casual player told over the years, "Nothing's stopping you from getting what you want out of [X game], just set aside the time to do it or don't cry about it!" and now, the moment a bone is thrown in their direction, they get to hear from the very same people that were telling them to suck it up, "HEY THAT ISN'T FAIR, WHY CAN'T I GET THAT?!"

Well. Nothing's stopping you from getting what you want out of FFXIV, just set aside the time to gain the rested exp, or don't cry about it.

I disagree with your assessment of my view. It's not that I feel it's unfair for the people who put in more time- I feel it's ethically unfair from a systems perspective. If our rewards are a result of the time we put in the game, which we both seem to agree on, I understand your perspective. You have other obligations that you feel are more important, they prevent you from putting in as many XIV hours as [random dude x]. That's fine. If they choose to give you a handicap to help stay on par with [random dude x] that's fine too. I choose to play this game, I have the liberty to walk away. I'm absolutely fine accepting their rules- and I don't think either group, casual or hardcore, is excessively benefiting from rest exp.

Time is the currency of MMOs. If we make a metaphor out of this, it can be compared to any other system with a currency, e.g: work, trading/bartering, etc. The differences people are debating in this thread are not casual versus hardcore, or exp reward systems, they're philosophical. Some people believe in individual reward equally distributed as a result of effort (no bonuses for anyone); and some people believe individuals with less opportunity should receive systemic benefits to elevate them to a common standard within a community (bonuses for less equitable individuals in the group).

The less equitable individuals are not worse players, or unintelligent; they're just people who put in less time. Time ends up being the currency of the system. If the devs feel that they want systems to elevate people in the community with less opportunity to receive bonuses that's entirely their choice. People who find this element a deal-breaker are free to leave. I'm not going to ragequit, it's not a trumping issue for me personally by any means. I just do not agree with the philosophy from a broad perspective.

[Ashthra]

I disagree with your assessment of my view. It's not that I feel it's unfair for the people who put in more time- I feel it's ethically unfair from a systems perspective. If our rewards are a result of the time we put in the game, which we both seem to agree on, I understand your perspective. You have other obligations that you feel are more important, they prevent you from putting in as many XIV hours as [random dude x]. That's fine. If they choose to give you a handicap to help stay on par with [random dude x] that's fine too. I choose to play this game, I have the liberty to walk away. I'm absolutely fine accepting their rules- and I don't think either group, casual or hardcore, is excessively benefiting from rest exp.

Time is the currency of MMOs. If we make a metaphor out of this, it can be compared to any other system with a currency, e.g: work, trading/bartering, etc. The differences people are debating in this thread are not casual versus hardcore, or exp reward systems, they're philosophical. Some people believe in individual reward equally distributed as a result of effort (no bonuses for anyone); and some people believe individuals with less opportunity should receive systemic benefits to elevate them to a common standard within a community (bonuses for less equitable individuals in the group).

The less equitable individuals are not worse players, or unintelligent; they're just people who put in less time. Time ends up being the currency of the system. If the devs feel that they want systems to elevate people in the community with less opportunity to receive bonuses that's entirely their choice. People who find this element a deal-breaker are free to leave. I'm not going to ragequit, it's not a trumping issue for me personally by any means. I just do not agree with the philosophy from a broad perspective.

Firstly, thank you for the intelligent reply.

Second, I understand where you're coming from from a philosophical point. Rested exp can be seen as the leveling equivalent to grading on a curve -- specifically, a curve that boosts the scores of the mediocre while giving no discernible rewards to the truly elite/good, other than perhaps bragging rights. From a broad perspective, it can muddle things, and takes away from the entire process itself. (It can, and has, also led to the slippery slope fallacy that the game will pre-load with everyone turning 50 before long.)

If the philosophical ideal behind this had a major opportunity to tip the scales of balance in the favor of those with little time, I would fully understand your concern. Having said that, in a more narrow and pragmatic view, rested exp likely won't offer that large of a bonus, if any, unless a person logs on so infrequently that they never stop accumulating it. For people like that, the leveling portion may be all they'll ever see to most games, because time doesn't simply permit them to get any farther than it.

While the broad perspective of rested exp in MMOs may be somewhat dubious, the real world applications of it have, in games which have had it in effect, had little impact on the leveling portion of the game itself. Now, inclusion of items like WoW's Bind on Account items and Recruit-a-Friend are significantly more dubious in nature, and can provide very real and noticeable advantages, which I still haven't really gotten behind, even after using both. (Felt like cheating, honestly.) Still, I doubt rested experience in FFXIV will be game-breaking in any measure.

Hmm.. Looks pretty definitive.. People would rather Play the Game While leveling, not just get so much XP they are max level in a day.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-in-it-for-you

I wonder what an Addition Bonus on top of our 1k/kill will do...

You mean the addition bonus you get on the first two kills before it goes away because you only spent eight hours in the mog house?

You do realize that in every game in which rested exp was there, it takes several days of inactivity in a 'rested' area before you accumulate enough rested to actually make a difference, right?

God I hate hyperbole and the disingenuously political ignoring of facts and trends to gain leverage for whatever inane buff/nerf is on the current docket.