So, what's your opinion on current healer jobs

[VictorTheed]

Healers are tied to DoM and casting stuff in general. Two of the healer role actions only work off of casting spells after all, and while Surecast isn't a big deal Swiftcast is noteworthy. We could still get Chemist, but Chemist has been magical in nature in the past so it wouldn't be that tricky.

You are correct sir, I'm just tired of the same old mage looking magic caster for the healer section, a battle medic of some kind whether it's chemist or something else would be a refreshing change looks and playstyle wise, I mean I don't mind having some magic uses on whatever this non mage would be but look at the other 3 healers we got magic mage type covered, a battle medic or even a healer that wears cool armor or whatever and dps's to heal it's party would be what I'm looking for, just no more mage looking magic casters for healer, we got 3 already.

[MirronTulaxia]

You are correct sir, I'm just tired of the same old mage looking magic caster for the healer section, a battle medic of some kind whether it's chemist or something else would be a refreshing change looks and playstyle wise, I mean I don't mind having some magic uses on whatever this non mage would be but look at the other 3 healers we got magic mage type covered, a battle medic or even a healer that wears cool armor or whatever and dps's to heal it's party would be what I'm looking for, just no more mage looking magic casters for healer, we got 3 already.

I mean, we have four heavy armor tanks, it's just kind of part and parcel with the role. We also have more non-mages than mages, so we really shouldn't lose another mage option. And the three healers we have, while all mages, are different from each other in terms of aesthetics. Likely the fourth healer, while still a mage, will be different as well.

[Kaizencorr]

A few simple things to add context. I play on console. I play through a focus on roles. I have a role I like(ranged physical with all 3 leveled), and I have one job in every other role for coverage as an fc leader. Lastly I don't raid any more, I barely touch extremes. I don't have the time for it anymore. My time is too sporadic.

With that out of the way, I play AST. And I'm definitely the ray of sunshine type. I don't have a problem with AST. I like the buff juggling. I like the busyness. I don't have a problem healing though I recognize how weak in comparison nocturnal healing is, I just avoid it like the plague and keep it stepping. While I don't raid anymore, I've played since beta and knowing how scripted raiding is, I struggle to understand how AST can be lacking in the current raid scene. Or any healer for that matter.

[JisKing98]

they feel boring. Also am i the only one who feels that Art of war is so out of place for sch? i find myself never using it as im just focused on healing all the time. ast was fun before it got gut punched. never bother with whm but ppl tell me its stale to play atm.

[VictorTheed]

I mean, we have four heavy armor tanks, it's just kind of part and parcel with the role. We also have more non-mages than mages, so we really shouldn't lose another mage option. And the three healers we have, while all mages, are different from each other in terms of aesthetics. Likely the fourth healer, while still a mage, will be different as well.

The tanks have the same problem as well but in their case they could use a mage in that role to differ things up just like the healers could use a non mage type healer to differ that section up, we shouldn't think oh tank has to be bulky armor or healer has to be robe wearer cause you'll just end up making the same thing over and over with no variety and that gets old fast.

Look at the dps, they're a perfect example of what I'm saying, thier end goal is the same cause it's thier role but they look different and in alot of cases play different, the dps's in this game prove you can do the same role but not be carbon copies, an example would be black mage and samurai, both very hard hitters but are different theme wise and playstyle wise, that's the spice of life right there.

[MirronTulaxia]

The tanks have the same problem as well but in their case they could use a mage in that role to differ things up just like the healers could use a non mage type healer to differ that section up, we shouldn't think oh tank has to be bulky armor or healer has to be robe wearer cause you'll just end up making the same thing over and over with no variety and that gets old fast.

Look at the dps, they're a perfect example of what I'm saying, thier end goal is the same cause it's thier role but they look different and in alot of cases play different, the dps's in this game prove you can do the same role but not be carbon copies, an example would be black mage and samurai, both very hard hitters but are different theme wise and playstyle wise, that's the spice of life right there.

Black Mages and Samurai are two different roles though. They split DPS into three subcategories. And again, there is plenty of variety when it comes to the current healers, and any future healer will be a DoM healer of some sort, so it's still going to use the same armor and such.

[Crushnight]

A few simple things to add context. I play on console. I play through a focus on roles. I have a role I like(ranged physical with all 3 leveled), and I have one job in every other role for coverage as an fc leader. Lastly I don't raid any more, I barely touch extremes. I don't have the time for it anymore. My time is too sporadic.

With that out of the way, I play AST. And I'm definitely the ray of sunshine type. I don't have a problem with AST. I like the buff juggling. I like the busyness. I don't have a problem healing though I recognize how weak in comparison nocturnal healing is, I just avoid it like the plague and keep it stepping. While I don't raid anymore, I've played since beta and knowing how scripted raiding is, I struggle to understand how AST can be lacking in the current raid scene. Or any healer for that matter.

Potency wise all 3 healers are balanced pretty well. Ast is top healer and Sch is bottom (close enough behind whm it doesn't need buffs).

However being best doesn't mean people want to play it.

Current savage tier numbers:
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...#class=Healers

Last savage tier numbers (think was a purge so less accurate):
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...#class=Healers

Ultimate numbers:
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...#class=Healers


Ast has been top healer since 5.1 changes and yet the ratio is still abysmal with over 2x whms and over 15k more scholars, despite people's issues with sch people rather play it than Ast despite also being the weakest healer. This suggests there is an issue with Ast that is keeping people away from playing it, and it ain't potency

Optimising Ast on controller is one of the worst experiences you can do in this game especially if do it repeatedly in quick succession like you do for progging, it all stems with how the targeting system works on controller so either that needs to change which is a much bigger undertaking as have to make it work for all jobs or change Ast (particularly Sleeve Draw).

[Laesha]

I'm enjoying the current iteration of astro more than i ever have

[Esmoire]

Salty take from someone who played AST as a secondary last expansion:

What can be taken away from the job design direction for Shadowbringers is that balance, is in fact, secondary to fun. That is not to say that balance isn't important, but an experience should be fun first and foremost. If it's not fun, people are not enjoying it, and not enjoying it reduces participation, and then balance doesn't matter if there isn't another player at the end of your chessboard. This has never been more true than with the astrologian. It is an extremely powerful job, yet the numbers speak for themselves. The participation rates for the job are pitiful. In general, I think there is a big misdirection about what was wrong with the cards. Not all attacks need to be crits, and not all cards have to be Balance. It was fine if the cards are not equal; the greater the range of options you make in a game in terms of stats, classes/jobs, etc., the more difficult balance becomes, so anything that enhances stats is never going to be perfect.

There's definitely things I'd change about the Stormblood AST card system. Redraw, Royal Road, Minor Arcana, all sound nice, but it reminds me of Greased Lightning where we have a lot of abilities that really come down to solving one problem. In the case of AST, it was typically "I have this card and I don't know what to do with it." Whether it was literally useless at the time (Ewer/Spire), or because the CD used to be locked until you played it, you had to do something with a card, and you could very well press many buttons to manage it. I think they had to change some of the existing cards, and change the tools for manipulating cards, but I don't think they had to throw out the whole system.

Don't have as much to say on the others. I think Scholar losing its rotation was less about the numbers it dealt, and more about the level of activity involved. No matter how you tune the numbers and all that, healers will have time where they are not healing. This is especially true for the healer with a heal bomb, limitless shields on demand, a permanent cohealer. I don't think every healer has to have something to constantly do like AST does and I think WHM is fine in that regard, but I think having a mini DPS kit on the Scholar was a good fit for the job. A few more buttons to play with can go a long way with keeping things engaging.

Instead, they vastly trimmed the SCH DPS kit, and replaced it with a greater number of healing spells that accomplish less work in attempt to give them the illusion of value. It would seem like giving the job Recitation in exchange for Accelerated Aetherflow is a fair exchange, but it's not. The former is another button that a lot of people use just because they made Aetherflow clunky with its inability to use outside of combat, and the latter was forward feedback loop that felt exciting.

[ForteNightshade]

The game simply does not encourage healing enough to make healers feel engaging. Savage differs a little bit, especially if you PuG since you'll certainly have to adjust to many more mistakes, but even then, you'll spend the overwhelming majority of your time spamming the same button. The dev team needs to accept that unless they're willing to fundamentally change their encounter design, adding more and more healing options every expansion means absolutely nothing when the game doesn't demand you make use of them.