Suggesting Ideas for Blue Mage with feedback & Removing Limited Job Status

[ReiMakoto]

Basing success of a job on whether people got the mount is bizarre. It could be a reaction to the Binding Coils and Alexander (Savage) as much as it is to the Job. Maybe people don't want to do that content, but love their BLU.

"BLU failed because people didn't do this content" is nonsense.

It is the only metric of measurable success other than feelycraft that is why it is being used. It represents people putting considerable time and effort into blu, something the other trackable stats to not.

But if we are taking feelycraft here, just look at any of the blu content discords, they were saying its been hard to find groups since week 2 of release, youll get 1 or maybe 2 posts looking for groups daily that take a while to fill. Pfs stay up for upwards of an hour just for skills, let alone blu log runs which take an age to fill if they fill at all. But thats all subjective feelycraft which other people can dispute with their own subjective experience (or fibs). This is why people try to use data.

Edit: btw, I am very much in the camp of loves blue mage but wont do morbol mount btw. And therin lies the issue. I find playing as and being a blue mage fun, yet one needs to jump through hoops and do years old content to get that fun. For someone like me there is nothing to do on BLU, i have no desire to run old content again sync'd and ive already done what the masked carnival had to offer me in less than an hour. So here I am, stuck with a class that I enjoy and nothing to enjoy it with (other than rarely helping my friends level)

[TurtlesAWD]

It is the only metric of measurable success

I think this definition of "success" is questionable. I haven't gotten the mount but I've played a number of hours of blue mage and I've had a good time. I would consider that, in some capacity, to be a success. And I think the claim that my fun was illegitimate because I don't yet have the shiniest horse would be arbitrary gatekeeping. Not that that's happening here, but it is the general thrust of the diablo-clone MMO is it not? An endlessly increasing number attached to the "hardest" available set of monsters to fight, completion of which becomes the only goal? The push for class streamlining meaning that anything outside the most recently developed 10% of content is literally untouched in favor of what is essentially a repeatable rotation simulator? Honestly I appreciate the class because it's a pushback against that, which is necessary, because MMO's can be more.

The availability of it as the only measurable metric is also untrue. Getting better data from a player end would require more comprehensive polling than anyone should put into the game, but the development team can absolutely measure how many people have completed the story, how many people have completed carnivale, the rate at which certain skills are learned or used, how often people do the weekly entries in carnivale or the log, etc.

[ReiMakoto]

I think this definition of "success" is questionable. I haven't gotten the mount but I've played a number of hours of blue mage and I've had a good time. I would consider that, in some capacity, to be a success. And I think the claim that my fun was illegitimate because I don't yet have the shiniest horse would be arbitrary gatekeeping. Not that that's happening here, but it is the general thrust of the diablo-clone MMO is it not? An endlessly increasing number attached to the "hardest" available set of monsters to fight, completion of which becomes the only goal? The push for class streamlining meaning that anything outside the most recently developed 10% of content is literally untouched in favor of what is essentially a repeatable rotation simulator? Honestly I appreciate the class because it's a pushback against that, which is necessary, because MMO's can be more.

The availability of it as the only measurable metric is also untrue. Getting better data from a player end would require more comprehensive polling than anyone should put into the game, but the development team can absolutely measure how many people have completed the story, how many people have completed carnivale, the rate at which certain skills are learned or used, how often people do the weekly entries in carnivale or the log, etc.

Nice strawman, I never once tried to claim that your fun was illegitimate. From the player end, right now, it is the only measurable success metric, that was what i was talking about, there hasnt been comprehensive polling and we are not privy to the devs data. That is all I was saying, that it is all we have to base success off of from a more objective standpoint. You cannot have an objective measure of fun, cos some people could find staring at bricks fun

Edit: what youve said doesnt really apply to BLU either, BLU is doing what other classes are doing as a "rotation repeating simulator" just theyre doing it in a older part of the game and they gave a larger variety buttons to make people feel like theyre doing something different. Fundamentally if youre not doing blu raids, youre just running dungeons with a beefed up class. Blu has a rotation its doing and repeating in this content with an illusion of choice of skills. So its only a pushback in the sense that the rewards are placed in existing content , not new content

[TurtlesAWD]

I'm not saying that you claimed my fun was illegitimate, that part was intended as a hypothetical. I tried to make this clear but it may not have come across that way. Most of that post was an extrapolation of the development path of other MMO's and where I think it's led and how it's impacted the community around it rather than being a direct response but I probably didn't differentiate where the response ended and that extrapolation began.