It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Iscah]

Though being against something because well it prevents one from being seen a certain way is kind of meh and seems like a call for attention not else how to put it.

We've been around this so many times in this topic. There's a difference between "demanding to be seen" and not wanting to be seen in a way you didn't choose to be seen.

I don't care if you don't look at me. But if you do look, I want to be the one who chooses how my character appears to you because it's representing me. Not because I want to force you to look at my outfit, but because I-as-my-character don't want to be forced into something else I wouldn't wear.

It's just... how society functions. This is a social game. We exist as people in it and interact with other people, whether we go out of the way to do so or not.

[Theodric]

The real world functions very differently to FFXIV on many fronts when it comes to how people dress themselves. It's rarely a case where anything and everything is permitted and tolerated. Indeed, certain establishments will - quite rightly - turn individuals away at the door if they are not dressed to the liking of the hosts.

Furthermore, plenty of people socialise in FFXIV without glamour ever being a factor in their interactions with other players.

[Awha]

We've been around this so many times in this topic. There's a difference between "demanding to be seen" and not wanting to be seen in a way you didn't choose to be seen.

I don't care if you don't look at me. But if you do look, I want to be the one who chooses how my character appears to you because it's representing me. Not because I want to force you to look at my outfit, but because I-as-my-character don't want to be forced into something else I wouldn't wear.

It's just... how society functions. This is a social game. We exist as people in it and interact with other people, whether we go out of the way to do so or not.

This is a video game though it allows us to deviate from reality. So why not let everyone with a differing view have control over their own personal experience.

The reality is you may not want to force people to see you in a certain way but currently it does play out that way. Just as people have to see my Frog Suit if they do not want to be penalized for leaving because they do not want to see a bright pink frog. Sure they have a choice but it is a shitty one, the option would remove the need for such a choice to be made. Personally I would gladly give up having people see me a certain way if it would make the game more enjoyable for them on a personal level.

When we wear things our intent may not be seen to force, but when we reject the idea if a client side altercations that preserve your appearance on your and others that do not have the option toggled you are forcing people into a situation. Sure they could quit, leave the group or find a new game / group but should we really view a solution that involves players to either leave the game or suck it up as the only solution. Doesn't that seem selfish in the sense that said option is good enough for those who do not wish to see certain things but the same cannot be said for those that want to maintain their right to be see a certain way?

[Awha]

Sorry moblie, also I may be dense but in my eyes you do care if people look at you, since you want them to see you a certain way. If you did not care you would mind how they saw you.

[Tsumdere]

Probably get flack for this, but in all honesty, would you be upset if someone wasn't able to see your glamour if the option was there?

Yes...? I would be upset. I dress my character the way I want to be seen which is very carefully. I would be upset to be seen in the skimpy AF DNC gear, a long dress-like robe, or something that doesn't play to my race's features (my main is a male Elezen). It is very different from modding as it would be officially sanctioned by SE and widespread.

I am more upset with the idea of being dressed down which would ultimately would defeat the OP's "skimpy" concern, seeing as how some AF and starter gear is far less covering and modest than what people currently glamour.

All these choices being "you need to avoid THEM.". No compromise here. Just it's your problem that you don't like the glamour, THEY can do whatever they like wherever they like. Why doesn't this bother people who seem to have the same problem with just the possibility of not being seen exactly as they've crafted? Someone out there is now beyond ignoring them and is now actively resenting their existence and changing their entire experience to AVOID them.

It IS your problem if you don't like something. Do you ask people to not eat tomatoes in front of you because you can't stand the sight of them? Or do you just look away?

And to be fair, I wouldn't want to play around people who get so upset about a specific glamour they literally drop parties or avoid city states. That just sounds like someone who would get upset if they cannot control everything around them. So, keeping glamour on is just an extra bonus for me.

[Krotoan]

It IS your problem if you don't like something. Do you ask people to not eat tomatoes in front of you because you can't stand the sight of them? Or do you just look away?

In the real world I would ignore it because I would be limited by real world physics and social constraints. This is not the real world, stop using real world logic to argue problems that have viable virtual solutions.

And to be fair, I wouldn't want to play around people who get so upset about a specific glamour they literally drop parties or avoid city states. That just sounds like someone who would get upset if they cannot control everything around them. So, keeping glamour on is just an extra bonus for me.

Then it would be your problem that you cannot stand just the idea that somewhere, someone mightnot see your avatar as intended.

This again, is not a valid argument against it so much as a protest that you wouldn't like a certain aspect of it. there's no inherent value in peoples beliefs that they NEED to have EVERYONE see them exactly as they are. While I won't say they're wrong, they would just have to adjust to the new normal. Yeah, I get they don't want it. But I want a certain experience out of the game I'm playing and using my hardware to render.

[Eldevern]

...

A progress is a progress only if it is beneficial for the wider range of people (and the proof is done when it doesn't backfire).

Unfortunatly, what people don't see or don't want to realize is the backfire. They ignore (purposely or not) it can backfire and don't care about the backlash.

The problem? The ones who will suffer the most of the backlash is the ones the double standard (and so called progress) is supposed to protect.

I don't care about the "gender" matter of crossdressing. From my side, it is mainly and mostly a simple factor : all cuts don't fit everyone, and cuts for women really rarely fit men shape.
All cuts for men don't fit all men, all cuts for women don't fit all women.

To see it only as some kind as LGBT matters is forgetting that a lot of person don't especially find the "fashion creative design" especially fit, it is often bizarre. See? It is just a taste, an opinion. The gender factor as nothing to do. I don't think kilts fit men, hopefully they wear high socks to hide hairy legs (I could joke about hawaiian shirts too since it is a common meme in USA).

Conceptual art or metaphoric art doesn't especially fit my tastes but it can sometimes be interesting.

The problem I have, in fact, is to hear people who imagine to be born straight (and/or be part of the middle class) immunize against frustrations and complexes (at least they talk as if) when the reality is trivial : to grow as an adult is first of all to learn to deal with frustrations and complexes.

Everyone face frustrations all the time, many have complexes too. The projection of "an ideal happiness" some suppose others to have is just some kind of comfortable illusion to excuse jealousy and a compensation for being frustrated. But it is not a truth. That's all the problem.

To force people to see is the worst solution because for sure it will backfire. People will ignore, try to avoid, to evade and it will not solve anything. But if the glamour is hidden, people will maybe be surprise to talk and discover, in fine, they get along, only as friend, but, anyway, they get along.


PS : You know, when I see the doomsday clock, I've never seen the society as a whole so tense, and even if it can sound only as a detail, it contributes to make the situation tense. I'm really worry about all the backfires that could occur on many subjects. A little thing added to another little thing, step by step can ends as a really huge backlash.

[Awha]

Yes...? I would be upset. I dress my character the way I want to be seen which is very carefully. I would be upset to be seen in the skimpy AF DNC gear, a long dress-like robe, or something that doesn't play to my race's features (my main is a male Elezen). It is very different from modding as it would be officially sanctioned by SE and widespread.

I am more upset with the idea of being dressed down which would ultimately would defeat the OP's "skimpy" concern, seeing as how some AF and starter gear is far less covering and modest than what people currently glamour.



It IS your problem if you don't like something. Do you ask people to not eat tomatoes in front of you because you can't stand the sight of them? Or do you just look away?

And to be fair, I wouldn't want to play around people who get so upset about a specific glamour they literally drop parties or avoid city states. That just sounds like someone who would get upset if they cannot control everything around them. So, keeping glamour on is just an extra bonus for me.

To be fair if we had a toggle they would not have to ask. I do not see how that is not a win, no one would have to leave the group, nothing would have to be brought up and everyone in the group is able to finish the run without having to cause any player to wait for a replacement player, and everyone's overall experience is kept intact.

[MelodyCrystel]

Since some hide-glamour-people aren't that much into understanding the counter-arguments, I guess something should be asked:

When you do dungeons / raids / trials / ex-fights, do you really have the time to play fully zoomed in and goggle at your comrades' clothes?
Means: Shouldn't your eyes been keeping track of the mobs, bosses plus possible AOEs (as well as health when you're a healer) instead of enraging because a stranger's glamour looks bad to you?

Another thing I wonder: Does even a MMO exist which entirely hides glamour? And if so, what clothes displayed then? Or do other playable characters simply vanish from the screen?

[Reinha]

Or do other playable characters simply vanish from the screen?

Well this would be a wonderful solution which I've seen requested before. Just /blacklist and poof! Nothing but their name and hit box remains. This would also work on the players who emulate adult activities with emotes.