Theory on Zodairk and Hydylian

[Akatosh]

You still have to consider that Hydaelins actions are what created the current situation. Yeah, she beat zodiark, but obliterated the 'original world' in the process. Obliterated that world with all the life that was on that world. As I said, fixed the roof by burning down the house, so there's no roof to fix anymore. She also pretty much leaves the first on the verge of extinction after stopping the flood. The WoL on the first do have the echo and should be able to 'hear' Hydaelin, so why wouldnt she step in and tell em "Hey, stop killing those things! Making everything bad!" Ive had a few thoughts about this so tinfoil hat time.

If Hydaelins primary directive is to beat and keep zodiark contained (and if we make the assumption that it's the source which she gives a rats ass about predominately), then the best way to beat the the ascians is to stop the rejoining by soft locking worlds. A big problem, in the Ascians plan is that the 13th is totally boned currently. If you need all the shards to rejoin, and the 13th is screwed up irreparably, the Asians are screwed already. But if that world already somehow rejoined, or theres something special about the 13ths situation, then Hydaelins best bet would be to screw up another world so badly it would prevent it from being rejoined. We know this is possible currently because the 13th shows this as being the case.

With that in mind, could it be possible that Hydaelin let what happened to the first happen, only to intervene to prevent it from fully rejoining and putting it in a position where if left alone long enough, itd get so screwed up that you couldnt rejoin it. Afterall, when you really think about it, Emet told us flat out that given time, they will win. Should their initial plans get stopped, theyll just wait it out and do it all over again down the line. So in that light, the first is still screwed. Even if you get Eden working again, Itd just take Elidibus time and careful planning to restart the rejoining again on the first. Itd probably be a lot easier considering how damaged the first is. So Hydaelins best bet? Soft Lock the shard to prevent it from being rejoined. Everything there dies? It's fine. A small sacrifice for the greater good. Do you think this thinking it far outside the mindset of the Amarotians, who make up Hydaelin and Zodiark's cores?

To be fair on the matter (of course, this is just my take on it):

I don't think it's a case of her trying to softlock a shard, so much as it is a case of her being unable to do anything beyond just stopping the flood. Nothing in the story thus far indicates to me that Hyadelin would have the ability to rewrite reality and fix the first (that was Zodiark's power). And, actually, she DID leave Minfilia behind on the first to fight against the sin eaters for countless generations, if memory serves. In addition, the idea of her contacting people in other shards to warn them of incoming calamities...first, that would require her knowing where the Ascians are acting (they don't make their schemes obvious at any point, and Hydelin doesn't exactly have a spy network). I'm also not sure that she can just contact anyone she wants, at any time and anywhere (heck, by the end of HW, I felt like she was already barely able to keep in direct touch with us, let alone make contact with people in another shard). She also lacks agents on the level of Lahabrea, Elidibus, and Emet to travel between the shards (she had Minfilia for a while, but that was for a relatively short while, and now she's gone for good). Overall, I think Hyadelin is on her final stretch, barely able to intervene directly in the Source, let alone other shards. I honestly think that by the time we manage to deal with Zodiark permanently, she's either gonna fall into a dormant state, or dissipate. As an added note, I very much doubt she'd be okay with the idea of softlocking worlds. A "sacrifice for the greater good" seems very much out of character for both her summoners, who summoned her exactly because they were tired of sacrifices, and by extension to Hyadelin herself.

[Melichoir]

Snips

I think the problem on the break down is what happens in the recent MSQ. She does

Call out in the darkness, so to speak, with the echo. This is evident as people on the first hear her call once they have the echo awakened. My perspective is that once that happens, she can have contact with people on other shards. As for minfilia, I always took that as that as her choice. Hydaelin did seem to instruct her to go there and stop the flood from wiping everything out, but I dunno if Minfillia was sent specifically to stop Sin Eaters and that wasnt something that the subsequent 'minfillia's did as a choice. This is a bit more complicated because it seems like Hydaelin only sent her there AFTER the incident dealing with teh Wars of Dark. If they hadnt shown up, I dunno if she wouldve done anything. As for 'Ascian agents' for Hydaelin's side...That actually has been bothering me. Where are the other 12 who helped summon Hydaelin? We know that Emet, Lahabrea, and Elidibus were there for Zodiark summoning, and the result of all that ensured they wouldnt become sundered for some reason (bit fuzzy on that), but why arent there agents of Hydaelin too? Did she willingly sunder her own vangard even though she knew Ascians were still around? That part is a bit wierd to me.

That being said, I dont think the softlock is out of bounds for her. We can already see the hypocrisy of Hydaelin being summoned as it is literally doing the very thing they didnt want done. They didnt want an all powerful Primal, so to deal with that, they create another All powerful primal. Not only that, but the primal ends up sundering the world and causing untold devastation in its battle with Zodiark. I think the key thing to take away is while the initial intentions are good, it is very possible that the cores of Zodiark and Hydaelin were 'overwritten' just because the sheer level of power these Primals have might be even to much for an Amoratine mage. It would make sense cause as powerful as Ryne is, she almost 'lost' herself in e8, becoming the very primal that would ve (should we have lost the fight) dealt the death blow to the first, possibly overflooding it with light. So even with a powerful core doesnt mean the Primal will come out as envisioned. But again, this is just speculation based on what we've seen.

[Akatosh]

Call out in the darkness, so to speak, with the echo. This is evident as people on the first hear her call once they have the echo awakened. My perspective is that once that happens, she can have contact with people on other shards. As for minfilia, I always took that as that as her choice. Hydaelin did seem to instruct her to go there and stop the flood from wiping everything out, but I dunno if Minfillia was sent specifically to stop Sin Eaters and that wasnt something that the subsequent 'minfillia's did as a choice. This is a bit more complicated because it seems like Hydaelin only sent her there AFTER the incident dealing with teh Wars of Dark. If they hadnt shown up, I dunno if she wouldve done anything. As for 'Ascian agents' for Hydaelin's side...That actually has been bothering me. Where are the other 12 who helped summon Hydaelin? We know that Emet, Lahabrea, and Elidibus were there for Zodiark summoning, and the result of all that ensured they wouldnt become sundered for some reason (bit fuzzy on that), but why arent there agents of Hydaelin too? Did she willingly sunder her own vangard even though she knew Ascians were still around? That part is a bit wierd to me.

That being said, I dont think the softlock is out of bounds for her. We can already see the hypocrisy of Hydaelin being summoned as it is literally doing the very thing they didnt want done. They didnt want an all powerful Primal, so to deal with that, they create another All powerful primal. Not only that, but the primal ends up sundering the world and causing untold devastation in its battle with Zodiark. I think the key thing to take away is while the initial intentions are good, it is very possible that the cores of Zodiark and Hydaelin were 'overwritten' just because the sheer level of power these Primals have might be even to much for an Amoratine mage. It would make sense cause as powerful as Ryne is, she almost 'lost' herself in e8, becoming the very primal that would ve (should we have lost the fight) dealt the death blow to the first, possibly overflooding it with light. So even with a powerful core doesnt mean the Primal will come out as envisioned. But again, this is just speculation based on what we've seen.

This should hopefully do it (sorry, like I said, internet and computer not on their best working orders):

I will grant one thing: whether or not the idea of a "softlock" is out of bounds would depend on how she was summoned (as in, what emotions/thoughts were going on when she was brought to life). That said, I still find it unlikely that it would be something she would conceive, given the initial circumstances of her summoning. That, however, I guess is something we'll have to wait and see (as you said, this is all speculation). As for the 12 that summoned her...call it a hunch, but I don't think they are alive anymore. To elaborate: Zodiark was the result of half of the ancients sacrificing themselves just to bring him forth and halt the calamity. In addition, he consumed half of what was remaining afterwards just to set things completely straight. That adds up to him having consumed 75% of all the ancients. With so few left, (and fewer still that would be willing to summon Hyadelin) summoning a primal that would even stand a chance against Zodiark probably meant the 12 didn't have the luxury of not serving as part of the sacrifices (along however many few they may have gathered to their cause). And in regards to the sundering matter, I don't think she did it with the intent of splitting the entire world. With the level of power that Zodiark presumably had at his disposal, it may be possible that during their battle, she realized the only way she could feasibly deal with him was to "divide and conquer", so to speak. I think she aimed the attack at him, but because he was the "Will of the Star" at this point (he was literally what was holding the laws of existence together), splitting him had the inadvertent effect of splitting EVERYTHING (that's my guess anyway). The "echo" broadcast, I will concede, feels very weird, and I hope they expand more on that (I feel like we're missing some information on that one). And remember, the echo is not inherited from her. Just because someone has the echo, doesn't mean they will hear Hyadelin beyond the "Hear, feel, think" message, as contacting someone is likely taxing for her (especially now that she's likely very much weakened).

[Avidria]

These forums are awful so here's the rest of my post that it won't let me edit to add for some reason

This is again just speculation on what I can remember from the story, but the way I understood it from what we've heard is that Hydaelyn was weaker than Zodiark because of the nature of her summoning having FAR fewer sacrificed lives to fuel her, and the only option available was sundering the world.

Ofc I do think it goes further to show the Amaurotines are every bit as flawed as we are, though that's a bit of a side note. Their solution to stopping sacrifice was more sacrifice, the solution to preserving new life the continued sacrifice of old and the possibly inadvertent sundering of *all* life. Hydaelyn certainly accomplished their original goal of stopping Zodiark from sacrificing everything else to resurrect the dead Amaurotines (not clear on whether only Amaurot was participating in this mass sacrifice? They certainly seemed to talk about the first city affected by the calamity as a separate entity but given the situation I could see it being all Ancients)... buuut at rh cost of sundering literally everything including the new life AND whatever few Ancients survived all this human sacrifice.
I don't trust Elidibus one lick but if half of what he's saying is true, Hydaelyn is too weak to do much of anything other than shouting blindly, hoping someone hears her, and either convincing or manipulating/tempering people into helping her. All working because she is the "mothercrystal" and viewed as such by the people alive today - which is interesting to think about actually. What little the world "remembers" of what happened millennia ago is of Zodiark being bad and Hydaelyn being good - cue Emet's monologue about the Victor writing the histories...

Anyway. All of this, imo, points to neither primal actually being inherently good or evil, but rather having fundamentally opposed goals, having been borne forward by people (Ancients) with fundamentally opposed philosophies. I got very much of a 'preserving the past at the cost of the future' vs 'preserving the future at the cost of the past' vibe from it all. Simplifies it a bit, but the heart of the issue felt more like a question of which life should be preserved - or, from the apparent perspective of the Ascians, which life is *worthy* of being preserved. Neither has the goal of simply destruction for destruction's sake, but Zodiark's victory would necessarily require the destruction of everything we (the WoL) know and love (or at least vaguely care about depending on how you rp your WoL )

Basically my thoughts are we're gonna have to maintain the balance at the end of the day. If Zodiark wins, we (the WoL & co.) all die, but if Hydaelyn wins absolutely, there's every chance that the result would be the same. Zodiark is the heart of the old world, Hydaelyn is the heart of the new, and losing either could be catastrophic for everyone. That's what I think the end result will be anyway. I'm not sure destroying the primals will turn out to be the answer, but I guess we'll see haha

[Savagelf]

first off when ascian first the sky to open up for meteor show people who normal get echo got it for Hydialyn so in fact Hydialyn give the echo. this war with Hydialyn and Zodairk have going for thousand of years since Zodairk and ascian split the world. I argee these forum are frustrate and awful at time. I don't think anything will change if Hydialyn win what are talk about if hydialyn. I think Hydialyn only goal is to keep Zodiark imprison and life to contue If she win at that nothing will change. since she is already in control of the world she will change nothing the truth issue what will happen if Zodiark wins. look at Hydialyn as Lawful Neutral in dnd term for her life just has keep going with nothing to tried harm it by I mean ascian. look Zodiark as Chaotic Evil or lawful Evil set law that it want set corse of all life and consume it. there is another to look at Zodiark as an addicted god he was feed live aether to give him power bring back life by doing this he has become addict to living aether. I often state I theories the Zodiark and hydialyn are fundamental different at they core. if hydialyn exsist in sea of aether could mean she can create it and mention it aswell. where Zodiark could so addict to consume it that even if he was release he won't keep any of promise he made for. in same way the prime are similar the have surive on aether to exsist in world. if Hydialyn exsist in core of world she create aether her self too so much that create the sea of aether, in similar earth core of earth keep earth going in some ways

if your talk about the Viera tomb of Viera mage remember the 13 shards have exsist after war between Hydialyn and Zodiark

I didn't see any mention of in the new dungeon that they responsible for create the echo

there a finally way look at this ascian decide in create Zodiark they play gods yet in they attempt to doing this they ruin they world to Vanet and her followers realize this was the trajicat error doom they world by creator hydialyn this could be counter weight but since summon and create a god goes desire of those that create it Hydialyn desire protect life was Vanet desire aswell so Hydlialyn became that desire to protect life and to preseverity it. the humorous of the ascian to believe the can create life and belief that they better of that life that created effect Zodiark to believe that life that ascian believe is better effect him aswell.

faith effect how they creation was made aswell how the beast tribes prime can into the world

[SturmChurro]

first off when ascian first the sky to open up for meteor show people who normal get echo got it for Hydialyn so in fact Hydialyn give the echo. this war with Hydialyn and Zodairk have going for thousand of years since Zodairk and ascian split the world. I argee these forum are frustrate and awful at time. I don't think anything will change if Hydialyn win what are talk about if hydialyn. I think Hydialyn only goal is to keep Zodiark imprison and life to contue If she win at that nothing will change. since she is already in control of the world she will change nothing the truth issue what will happen if Zodiark wins. look at Hydialyn as Lawful Neutral in dnd term for her life just has keep going with nothing to tried harm it by I mean ascian. look Zodiark as Chaotic Evil or lawful Evil set law that it want set corse of all life and consume it. there is another to look at Zodiark as an addicted god he was feed live aether to give him power bring back life by doing this he has become addict to living aether. I often state I theories the Zodiark and hydialyn are fundamental different at they core. if hydialyn exsist in sea of aether could mean she can create it and mention it aswell. where Zodiark could so addict to consume it that even if he was release he won't keep any of promise he made for. in same way the prime are similar the have surive on aether to exsist in world. if Hydialyn exsist in core of world she create aether her self too so much that create the sea of aether, in similar earth core of earth keep earth going in some ways

if your talk about the Viera tomb of Viera mage remember the 13 shards have exsist after war between Hydialyn and Zodiark

I didn't see any mention of in the new dungeon that they responsible for create the echo

there a finally way look at this ascian decide in create Zodiark they play gods yet in they attempt to doing this they ruin they world to Vanet and her followers realize this was the trajicat error doom they world by creator hydialyn this could be counter weight but since summon and create a god goes desire of those that create it Hydialyn desire protect life was Vanet desire aswell so Hydlialyn became that desire to protect life and to preseverity it. the humorous of the ascian to believe the can create life and belief that they better of that life that created effect Zodiark to believe that life that ascian believe is better effect him aswell.

faith effect how they creation was made aswell how the beast tribes prime can into the world

I actually read this whole thing, and portions of it multiple times and I still have literally no idea what you are posting about.



[EDIT]Are you posting in code? Hmm... I will need a cipher.

[Savagelf]

first off I point there was no point that those create hydialyn state they create echo, I play through the dungeon that went past mlq I do something go off on tanject. through play the dungeon three time I look pay close attention to dungeon cutescene at end I found that there was no discuss between the scions about echo be create by Venet or her or his followers, Urainger refer to Hydialyn as chian the bide Zodiark though. I do believe a star be transfer into god is dramatic event that but it also humbest action of ascians. it often worried when humanity behavior this way with cells of children or cells of children to come. Venet hope restrain Zodiark murderous nation for human sacrifice, I agree there gain of truth of ascian history for them but one must look deep to find them again I believe hydialyn is lawful neutral when this conflict between her and ascian are over she problem will refrain involve in affair of mortals unless it is threat to life of the source or shards.

Hydialyn only made her present know when the ascian brought behamut into the world.

let look at this like war Hydialyn won a great victory against Zodiark by imprison him but it hollow victory because the ascian won victory still exsist so they shape the worlds history and event base on they view. manlupation you argue what they manipulation they been control events even Elibus see the ability to so confusion he toke it. one way an enemy tried defeat an enemy is by sow chaos by misinformation this was Elibus game with the WoL yes he was evil yet he had seed of truth but those seeds of truth where hiden by his view of his enemy we don't know all ffxiv till 5.3 so we guess. through Yoshi P interview about Elibus be more tried make air not be evil and was a good interview he did awesome job with villian make people question their action with what villains is say this awesome way doing villians it also play on what ascian has been tried doing the entire war with Hydialyn tried so chaos and misinformation into the war in many way they where one write the history as they said history is write by victory

writing disability sometime I skip word when I tried type sentives out it frustration of mine

[Savagelf]

I found it interest how much people trust Emet-Selch with what he said about Hydialyn, consider he work with and for Zodiark seem to me people don't realize one shouldn't trust they enemy because he desire the destruction of all the people on source and shards it show how quick people believe they enemy and not take what he said with grain of salt.

[Destinova]

Elidibus is Zodairk heart

Venet is Hydaelyn heart but Venet has yet to reveal herself or has she reveal and none us realize who she is. aka the warrior of light.

how does one defeat elidibus solution the crystal tower. I theories that crystal arch is died but in his effect save both first and prevent elidibus for cause more damage to the first and the source he will bind elidibus to himself and take elidibus with him the theif really does run away with the hero prize in this case

If Elidibus name is Sabik ^_-.

[Avidria]

I found it interest how much people trust Emet-Selch with what he said about Hydialyn, consider he work with and for Zodiark seem to me people don't realize one shouldn't trust they enemy because he desire the destruction of all the people on source and shards it show how quick people believe they enemy and not take what he said with grain of salt.

I absolutely don't trust him. But I do believe there was most likely truth in what he told us, and Elidibus' reaction to it - scorn and disgust - makes me believe even moreso that Emet had his own thoughts on everything that's happened that don't necessarily align with the other Ascians. Everything we've seen this expac has taught me the Ancients, Ascians included, are every bit as flawed and prone to emotional responses as present day residents of the Source and shards, and I have a hard time doubting that Emet was exactly the bitter, exhausted, angry old man SE painted him to be.

He was the WoL's enemy but destruction was a means to an end for him. His goal was to bring his people back from the dead, to restore a civilization he saw as better, more whole and more worthy. He could be lying, but I wouldn't be all that surprised to learn that he was being 100% truthful when he told us he desperately wanted us to prove ourselves worthy to carry on his people's legacy and be the Steward of the new world that his world was split into (even if he didn't say it with quite those words, that's definitely what I got from the story). I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that he was genuinely disappointed when we, in his eyes, failed to prove him wrong about us.

I don't trust Emet, but at this point I don't really trust the accuracy of Eorzea's recorded history or Hydaelyn and her summoners either.