Thornmarch Hard Mode critical bug, SE thinks there's insufficient information.

[Deceptus]

Hopefully it gets some traction here because whoever moderates the Bug forum isn't getting the picture.

Apparently since 5.1 (the point they "nerfed" the encounter) when King Mog transitions and arrives he's doing massive damage via Memento Moogle that a normal lvl 50 at the proper item level simply can't survive.

Multiple people have confirmed it.

Pic of the damage

Video of it happening

Video from 2014 showing the same attack in the same situation only doing 131 damage (Protect and stoneskin still existed at the time and should have roughly accounted for 20% damage reduction)

[Claire_Pendragon]

In the video provided, the poster said in the 1st phase (before the king comes out) they didnt kill all the moogles. The moogles need killed before both phases happen.

I recently did this with my friend who was in just the i90 AF gear, and he survived just fine, barely hurt. The reddit poster keeps thinking "kill the moogles" is a reply to the 2nd phase, which it also applies to the 1st phase. Its still possible it may be a lot in certain cases, even with the adds dead, but I havent personaly encountered it, and the post, nor the video confirm all moogles were dead in the 1st phase. (I remember my groups wiping constantly on the fight when the 1st moogles werent dead, back when i was i80~ish in 2.1, due to this very same mechanic)

EDIT:

Guys, its the transition memento mori.

Thats the one im talking about.
Granted the friend I brought was nearly i90, not i120.
but the speed of killing isnt what matters, but the number left alive.
which in that video linked, the owner of the video said not all moogles were killed before the transition to the next phase. (yes, the 1st one, the transition one, not the final one during phase2)
when this fight was brought into the game 2.1, the average person was in darklight gear (i70) as that was basic tome gear. the weekly limit tome gear was i90, and crystal tower gear was i80.
The damage may have increased, which im not doubting, but the video presented wasnt a good video, because it didnt do the mechanic right.
as for the reddit post, the 1st post wasnt clear, due to repeating "Im talking about the 1st memento mori, not the 2nd!" when ppl are talking about the 1st.
I stopped reading, since the original poster was ignoring what ppl said. (just as you almost did with this comment I just quoted. but at least you try to mention the speed at which u killed the moogles, which makes it sound like u did kill them, so at least that addresses the actual question people needed to know first.)
But since its dmg isnt going up for leaving moogles alive, its most likely reading that all moogles havent been killed. You're correct.
As another poster mentioned, there's a form you(they) need to fill out, and i cant say they filled it out wrong, but even slightly incorrect information, or missing information, leads to the post getting ignored as "not enough information".

EDIT#2: They probably wont fix it, because of the echo leading to having enough HP to survive it.
Its why so much old savage tier content isnt fixed, despite tanks, and healers losing out on needed cooldowns, and DPS losing plenty of options.
They know the echo will cover the difference.

[Eldevern]

If you skip to kill the adds mogs... it's not surprising... why do people imagine fight are just a zerg fest where you can skip to kill adds?

1. Not only adds have to be killed
2. But adds have to be killed in a certain order preferably

Yes I read the thread in reddit but they are really unclear about the fact if yes or no they killed enough adds. Since many HL overgeared imagine they can skip everything, I wouldn't be surprised they didn't not killed enough adds.

Memento is a OS mechanic.

[Claire_Pendragon]

2. But adds have to be killed in a certain order preferably

HAVE to is a strong word :P Back in 2.1 Ive had groups kill them in just about every different order. We just mostly agreed the most annoying ones were BLM, WHM, and BRD. So we liked killing them, to make the fight less annoying.
(On a side note, we once had the boss wipe us, cuz the main tank of PLD, was in sword oath, and his damage in sword oath was enough to enrage the boss in the 2nd phase each time. It wasnt until the 4th wipe, someone checked the dps, and saw not a single person attacked the boss, other than the PLD lol)

[Maeka]

HAVE to is a strong word :P Back in 2.1 Ive had groups kill them in just about every different order. We just mostly agreed the most annoying ones were BLM, WHM, and BRD. So we liked killing them, to make the fight less annoying.
(On a side note, we once had the boss wipe us, cuz the main tank of PLD, was in sword oath, and his damage in sword oath was enough to enrage the boss in the 2nd phase each time. It wasnt until the 4th wipe, someone checked the dps, and saw not a single person attacked the boss, other than the PLD lol)

Any kill order is fine, as long as you don't kill the two tanks before the other moogles IIRC. I remember someone telling me that if the WAR or PLD is killed and other moogles are up, he will immediately do the "I KEEL YOU NOW" thing on his next Memento.

But I've gotten through Thornmarch several times, in fact I did one just a week ago and it was fine. Because, you know, we killed all the adds.

Go figure. Do the battle correctly, win.
Screw it up and die.

The way it should be.

EDIT: Was watching the video.... the guy recording who dies only has 3,800HP which is barely over half what everybody else has. Like, seriously, he put no effort into even getting any Ironworks gear, which is buyable the moment you ding 50 (and there's a good bit of MSQ between Praetorium and Thornmarch, easily enough time to get some Ironworks gear). Heck the Praetorium run you go through the first time should be enough to buy at least 1 piece, and then the roulette would give you enough to get 2-3 more, and that's just the first day you ding 50. Not to mention adding Trials roulette to that, too. Also, they could buy some Lv50 craftables, too.

Definitely a player problem. Maybe they should just simply raise the I-level required to 100 or something.

Also, shame on the OP for not casting Succor/Adloquium. He even talks about how he's about to do this big attack and......he doesn't bubble anybody. While playing the healer whose job is all about bubbles. An adlo would have saved his life. Heck, Succor would have even done the same. He took 3854 damage and he had 3814 health.

Issue is still unresolved as of the latest hotfix patch as I took 3.4K damage from a transition Memento Moogle that was weakened by Reprisal and Addle.

It's still causing more damage then all of the EX primals do with their phase transitions (Shiva EX is the "toughest" primal in ARR, but her Diamond Dust only hits for around 2.8K comparatively) so not very reasonable.

Nobody should have 3.4k health, I mean c'mon. Getting I-level 100+ is easy-peasy even for your first time through. Maybe, before going into your first (Hard) fight, you might want to actually make sure you're dressed for the occasion? Heck, they hand you i90 gear just by finishing your Lv50 job quest. Are you trying to tell me you're going in there without any sort of proper gear?

Not sure why people are acting like you should be able to walk into Thornmarch wearing Lv45 junk that you had on you while you were in your 40s and expect not to die.

[Eldevern]

...

In my first post here I had the same opinion than you. But since...

I've checked two videos, one from 2015, one from 2020. The difference is... huge.

In both case, players have between 4k and 7k HP (and that's normal for an ilvl between 70-110 when you are around lvl 50)
In 2015, they lost around 1/5 of their HP.
In 2020, they lost around 4/5 of their HP.

In both case, they followed the strategy, without mistake. The difference? In 2015 the monarch hit around 0.4K, now it seems he deals almost 4K damages in every cases (I tried solo witht the same result, around 4K damages).

There actually is a problem.

[Deceptus]

Go figure. Do the battle correctly, win.
Screw it up and die.

The way it should be.

How many times does it have to be explained to ignorant people that this fight was done the right way (this is the VERY first AoE) and is doing way too much damage.

EDIT: Was watching the video.... the guy recording who dies only has 3,800HP which is barely over half what everybody else has.

That just shows they were a bonafide Newb. And they shouldn't be shamed for that. We were all there. Hell I've been in dungeon runs where as the healer I had more HP than the tank and everyone else and ended up tanking everything.

Nobody should have 3.4k health, I mean c'mon. Getting I-level 100+ is easy-peasy even for your first time through. Maybe, before going into your first (Hard) fight, you might want to actually make sure you're dressed for the occasion? Heck, they hand you i90 gear just by finishing your Lv50 job quest. Are you trying to tell me you're going in there without any sort of proper gear?

While I agree, that still doesn't matter. The attack is doing WAY too much damage.

Not sure why people are acting like you should be able to walk into Thornmarch wearing Lv45 junk that you had on you while you were in your 40s and expect not to die.

You can't walk into Thornmarch at lvl 45. The min ilvl is 54. But if you were wearing ilvl 55 (vendor gear) you would absolutely die. The minimum ilvl exists for a reason. You should be able to make it past the first AoE. You can't do that due to the bug.

[NessaWyvern]

Definitely a player problem. Maybe they should just simply raise the I-level required to 100 or something.

Nobody should have 3.4k health, I mean c'mon. Getting I-level 100+ is easy-peasy even for your first time through. Maybe, before going into your first (Hard) fight, you might want to actually make sure you're dressed for the occasion? Heck, they hand you i90 gear just by finishing your Lv50 job quest. Are you trying to tell me you're going in there without any sort of proper gear?

Not sure why people are acting like you should be able to walk into Thornmarch wearing Lv45 junk that you had on you while you were in your 40s and expect not to die.

Looks like I’ll have to repeat myself. This game is designed so that it’s possible for a full party of minimum ilvl people to clear the fight. If this is impossible, then it is a bug/oversight on their end that needs to be fixed. Plain and simple.

There is also a minimum ilvl setting explicitly for players who want to try to clear with the minimum requirements, and players simply cannot do that atm in Thornmarch hard mode.

[Matchakuchen]

Guys, its the transition memento mori.
on top of that it happens synched and unsynched no matter how fast you kill the moogle in first phase before the dance part.

I am baffled that you guys still don't get it.

it does 3800 DMG no matter what and can kill under ilvl90 people which is a problem since the min ilvl is 54.

It's really not that hard. and you can see in old videos of that trial that it used to do only 200 DMG during Transition.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

You have to follow their bug report template. If you don't, they will file it under insufficient info.