Locking dyable artifact gear behind a extreme trial, good idea?

[Eldevern]

Why people are always focused on their belief it is because of the "difficulty"? It is not the difficulty as an "absolute" the problem, there are side matters.

What if you want to sleep at night and the only way to do Ex is to play at evening?
What if to "come in voice chat" is not possible?
What if you see some latency that makes it will end as a PL?

And the PF... waiting two hours to give up after an half because someone ragequit and go for a PF again... to disband after a new half of waiting.

If it was only that.

The Ex itslef is odd. There's no NM you can train on and...

And they didn't even put a Dragon as a possible drop.

Once you've gotten what you want, be it 1 set or 15, there is ZERO incentive to go back.

More I think about what they say about the relic, more and more I expect some kind of BA-like (or Ex-like) farm in a Eureka-like world. Some talk about "difficulty"... I expect the worst grinding they ever done. Grinding fate and trashes, ok but grinding mandatory Ex...

[dinnertime]

Personally I think it's...okay.
I like the idea that you'll have to actually work hard for it in a shorter amount of time than to do hours and hours of unengaging, monotonous grinding you can do with your eyes closed. Extreme trials aren't very difficult anymore. A "casual" like me, someone who hasn't touched savage one bit, could clear them and I'm sure others can to. I've seen misconceptions that they're too difficult when the devs have expressed countless times that they've been lowering the difficulty of these fights so more people could participate in them.

I think people should try it out first before they start shying away. This imaginary divide over casual and hardcore players/content is becoming ridiculous.

[E4EO]

Pretty sure this is the fourth time I've said this, but to all to people who keep saying this is easy and to just get gud, it doesn't matter how easy it is if your teammates aren't very good.

You can practice all you like, watch 3 different guides over the course of a week, be in a great mood, but be bogged down by your party members. In PF you're gambling with who you get in that PF, you could get someone like you who's practiced and research plus they're in a great mood, but what happens if you get someone who's just looking for a carry? Someone who's barking orders and refuses to discus strategies with the fellow party members? Someone who leaves after 2 wipes?

In the PF it is NOT about YOU getting gud, it is about the whole party cooperating in order to take down the boss, everyone must do their part if they are to take down the boss.

[Silica-chan]

Didn't they require you to beat certain HW primal on EX difficulty in one of the weapon upgrade quests?
I thought it was only changed in SB where they made Eureka for the relics.

No they didn't require extrme mode for the relic weapon, just hard modes (for the weapons). The AF Gear was released as the current tomestone gear back then which either required savage kills, or the allaince raid tokens to upgrade it. (which is fine for me that raiders get the rewards earlier than the non raiders.

[Velthice]

How did this turn into a "git gud" argument? The issue is that relics and AF armor have always been available at a casual level with a significant time investment attached. Even in heavensward, the items to upgrade the af armor was made available through 24 mans. Putting them in an EX is a major departure from that.

If they put the best weapons in armor in the gold saucer, you'd think it was weird right? Because it's contrary to he precedent they've set since ARR

[Allegor]

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See, you already got the wrong idea [and were unnecessarily snarky]. I literally said it's not about difficulty - it's not about being unwilling to put effort in learning the fight, it's being unwilling to deal with people who are unwilling to be patient, cooperate, expect to be carried, or whatever other reason that makes them act like a jerk. It's not a universal occurrence to get those kind of people, true, but some would just rather avoid such stress altogether.

[dinnertime]

What if you want to sleep at night and the only way to do Ex is to play at evening?

You can try to find to do them elsewhere that fits your time and schedule. It's not impossible right now since it's pretty new and relevant.

What if to "come in voice chat" is not possible?

Then find a group that doesn't require voice chat. So far with me, I didn't need voice chat to clear Ex trials, but I'd assume it's helpful for callouts.

What if you see some latency that makes it will end as a PL?

If you have latency issues and if you're in an NA server living in europe or the like then that is more of a you problem, otherwise this is pretty valid if you're close to the server location.

And the PF... waiting two hours to give up after an half because someone ragequit and go for a PF again... to disband after a new half of waiting.

Sure, this could be true, it could be not. Though, I doubt the wait will be that long, especially when the new Ex fight is new and somewhat relevant.

To be honest little excuses like these is why people get so discouraged to do it.

[thegreatonemal]

Pretty sure this is the fourth time I've said this, but to all to people who keep saying this is easy and to just get gud, it doesn't matter how easy it is if your teammates aren't very good.

You can practice all you like, watch 3 different guides over the course of a week, be in a great mood, but be bogged down by your party members. In PF you're gambling with who you get in that PF, you could get someone like you who's practiced and research plus they're in a great mood, but what happens if you get someone who's just looking for a carry? Someone who's barking orders and refuses to discus strategies with the fellow party members? Someone who leaves after 2 wipes?

In the PF it is NOT about YOU getting gud, it is about the whole party cooperating in order to take down the boss, everyone must do their part if they are to take down the boss.

So keep rolling the dice like everyone else does stop acting like everything must be perfect and laid out for you in order to even attempt. You're starting to act like those people who demand perfection. Content has been out for three days not three months calm yourself.

[Melichoir]

And they didn't even put a Dragon as a possible drop.

Once you've gotten what you want, be it 1 set or 15, there is ZERO incentive to go back.

Once you got Dragon from...lessay Titania, why go back to it? There's zero incentive. Dunno why youre making a distinction between armor and dragons. Both are drops. Hell, atleast the armor has a longer lifespan due to getting multiple sets and the potential itll add up into a second armor set down the line.

Dripping in toxicity. There is nothing wrong with being casual and not wanting to be in EX content. This is coming from someone with every job at 80 and who does EX Content.

I don't do savage because I don't want a 2nd job.

But some people feel the same way about EX content, it's hard for them. It's stressful. And it's wrong for you to berate them for that.

I do love how when someone tells other players to improve to reap the rewards of content are "Toxic". It's not even quaint anymore. It's just old and tired now. Hell, the great irony is that if I ddint think people could improve to do it, I wouldn't bother telling people to improve. I firmly believe anyone can do this content. Im not sitting here making excuses and believing that it is 'to hard' or stressful for some players. If anything, saying that it is to much, to stressful, sounds like you think some or most casual players just cant cut it. You have less faith in the player base than me.

Lets be honest here. Other than the huge time sink that Eureka was, It required very little input realistically. In both Anemos and Pagos, You just had to follow the train, poke the boss and do a few heals and not get killed and voila, you get Artifact gear. Hell you could afk for most of it and still be relatively successful. This mentality that you should get Artifact gear (or anything) with little to no skill or effort is a problem for the player base. Cause it teaches casual players that skill isnt necessary in this game, forces the skill floor down, and creates a divide between the higher and lower skilled players. And when the higher skilled players get "Cool weapons and armors and Mounts and boss fights" you hear people say how 'unfair' it is.

You dont want to improve yourself to a relatively decent level of play where all you need to do is observe and learn, then you shouldnt have access to some of the more powerful and cool looking equipment in the game. You should get out of the game what you put into it.

Btw, This idea that you need to make it a second job to do Savage or EX is BS and seriously needs to stop. It's nothing but excuse making. Im by no means a top tier player, but in 2 hours of play and one youtube video I cleared the fight with people dying, not using LB for dps, and lots of mistakes. People in my FC who dont even touch savage have cleared the fight with just a small bit of time and effort. This isnt a "second job" situation. It really is a situation of being up to par skill wise and being willing to learn.

If you cant do the fight cause you keep dying to mechanics or cant keep the tanks alive or whatever and youre geared 470+, dont give me some half butt excuse about difficulty. It's purely a 'you' problem and you just need to own the simple fact that if you were better this wouldnt be an issue. And before the cute "Well I know it but everyone else sucks" excuse that weirdly gets trotted out as a response, you do realize that saying people dont need to improve feeds into that problem of it 'being everyone else'.

Stop making excuses, stop covering for other players so they dont have to improve, and just do the content. Learn, Practice, Improve, Accomplish. Cause I tell you what you. It's not the gear in the end that you miss out on if you dont do it. It's the accomplishment of saying "yeah, I did this." and seeing the fruits of your labor pay off. Its a good feeling. If you want something, be prepared to work for it. And dont make excuses when you dont get it but others do. This game isnt Dark Souls kind of difficult. It's doesnt require 30-40 hours to learn a fight or become better. Anyone can clear this fight with a bit of practice.

[Mavrias]

Why people are always focused on their belief it is because of the "difficulty"? It is not the difficulty as an "absolute" the problem, there are side matters.

What if you want to sleep at night and the only way to do Ex is to play at evening?
What if to "come in voice chat" is not possible?
What if you see some latency that makes it will end as a PL?

And the PF... waiting two hours to give up after an half because someone ragequit and go for a PF again... to disband after a new half of waiting.

If it was only that.

The Ex itslef is odd. There's no NM you can train on and...


More I think about what they say about the relic, more and more I expect some kind of BA-like (or Ex-like) farm in a Eureka-like world. Some talk about "difficulty"... I expect the worst grinding they ever done. Grinding fate and trashes, ok but grinding mandatory Ex...

There are plenty of PFs up all day and night, so that's moot.
Most parties do not require voice chat, especially for EX fights.
If you have latency issues that severe you shouldn't be doing party content period.
If you don't have friends to run content with you'll just have to get used to PF life. People come people go, as is their right.