Shadowbringers starting to feel like a budget expansion

[Gula]

A budget expansion is Warlords of Draenor.

Shadowbringers is nothing like that.

Just take a break OP.

I guess they're a slave to the game but have forgotten what makes it run in the first place.

https://youtu.be/ONT6fxiu9cw?t=13m26s

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I believe a second Ultimate will come during the next raid cycle? The rest are just minor annoyances to me but I agree with these two points:


This was rather disappointing as I saved up extra Ultimate tokens for the new classes.


The sad thing is I don't know if you are kidding or not. Most of the Savage mechanics in Verse aren't particularly impressive, doesn't really make you go "Wow that's a really cool idea". I was just under the impression they're burned out.

They have new devs working this tiers savage. People asked for new blood to be brought in, and we got it. Doesn't make them the b team, just new.

[ForteNightshade]

Stop putting him on such a high pedastal, we literally pay for this game and are allowed to critique and state what we dislike and if we are disgruntled, I had to endure people crying about steps of faith being too hard, or their robot being a queen so pretty sure this is fine to talk about without people saying oh well just go away for a few months. No how about we improve the game.

I have never understood these forums, literally so many responses people give are 'well yoshi said this' so what? He is the game director I get that but the whole point of this is if enough people dislike something, as a game director he should respond, if we say absolutely nothing, then the chance of anything changing will always be zero..

Same thing goes for politics or bad work practices.

I'd also like to point out the whole "you can take a break" argument would hold a little more weight if things like housing weren't tied to your activity. Content has also been conveniently staggered in between monthly sub periods. So while Yoshida may encourage the whole taking a break aspect, SE doesn't want you unsubbing. That break is essentially "Stop playing... but still pay us."

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I think the issue is more that we don’t know what is being developed. So far we have only been told what we aren’t getting. This game’s developers like to keep things a secret as long as possible. There should be a live letter soon to tell us about 5.3 and what to expect from that. The other issue I think some people have is the content we have gotten isn’t combat related. We have Ishgard restoration happening, new diadem, and ocean fishing. Some other things they are working on are new game+ and reworking ARR content. I also heard FFXIV is going to be on Xbox. I’m sure that takes up a good portion of time and resources too.

We used to get more detailed info on what was coming up. People tending to hold it against the devs if things changed, you still see certain things in people's signatures here.

So they stopped, because people wouldn't let go and attacked them for having to change things. Now we have no idea what's coming up other than a few weeks prior.

I'd also like to point out the whole "you can take a break" argument would hold a little more weight if things like housing weren't tied to your activity. Content has also been conveniently staggered in between monthly sub periods. So while Yoshida may encourage the whole taking a break aspect, SE doesn't want you unsubbing. That break is essentially "Stop playing... but still pay us."

I took a break this past weekend to play through Jedi: Fallen order. Had fun with it. I assume lots will be taking a break to play the 7 remake. You can still play other games while playing this one. Just because you pay a sub doesn't mean you have to spend every waking moment playing this one game. And if you feel that means you aren't getting your money's worth, well... A movie ticket costs almost as much as a month's sub, and that's at most 3 hours of entertainment.

[Skivvy]

I guess they're a slave to the game but have forgotten what makes it run in the first place.

https://youtu.be/ONT6fxiu9cw?t=13m26s

This tends to always get brought up in these conversations. Now let me preface this that I do feel like Yoshi and team love the game, and are probably doing the best the can with what they're given. Just my own personal feeling on that.

However, I feel like him coming out and saying it's OK for people to unsub and come back for patches only is more for damage control and to help sway opinions regarding the amount of content. I can't imagine any developer would intentionally provide just enough content to keep people subbed for say 3 months, and then are happy that they unsub for the next 6 months or so. Bottom line is that they are losing money when people unsub.

So yeah, them coming out and saying it's cool to take breaks feels more like they are now trying to put the blame for any lull a person may feel on the player (this is your fault for staying subbed all this time! What did you expect would happen!?) vs them owning up to there just not being enough content to stretch far. And then you get the people who happily will toss that reasoning in your face whenever you mention how the content seems minimal. They've created their own perfect defense and army who will defend them.

Obviously no company is going to come out and declare they are aware that they lack content, so I suppose props to the team for spinning things in a way that works in their favor.

[Gula]

I think the issue is more that we don’t know what is being developed. So far we have only been told what we aren’t getting. This game’s developers like to keep things a secret as long as possible.

Well if they told everything then people would judge it before it even came out, flood with negative feedback without even attempting to understand the positives, and also- spoilers.

Or maybe I'm crazy for looking at the positives first and foremost iunno.

[ForteNightshade]

I took a break this past weekend to play through Jedi: Fallen order. Had fun with it. I assume lots will be taking a break to play the 7 remake. You can still play other games while playing this one. Just because you pay a sub doesn't mean you have to spend every waking moment playing this one game. And if you feel that means you aren't getting your money's worth, well... A movie ticket costs almost as much as a month's sub, and that's at most 3 hours of entertainment.

I never said you had to spend every waking second but people's complaints is they're mostly raid/Expert logging because they have little to do, and the relic didn't alleviate that. That three hour movie is longer than it takes to get three relics. Kind of says a lot.

Regardless, the point is... if SE actually encourages breaks, they wouldn't stagger content but release everything so people could enjoy it at their leisure and unsub afterwards. Obviously, they don't want that hence why constantly bringing up "Yoshi said!" is disingenuous. People typically don't mean they want to take a couple days off to play something else when they're talking about breaks.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I never said you had to spend every waking second but people's complaints is they're mostly raid/Expert logging because they have little to do, and the relic didn't alleviate that. That three hour movie is longer than it takes to get three relics. Kind of says a lot.

Yeah, but quality over quantity. The solo instance probably took a significant amount of dev time, and it was really neat. Plus, grinds for the sake of grinds are annoying.

Ive never been able to raid log, and I'd think about 95% or more of the games population don't either. I'm still progging E8s. Last tier I didn't clear titan until January? (granted there was a long vacation and then I got flooded out of my apartment)

Most midcore and casual groups are still in prog.

[Gula]

This tends to always get brought up in these conversations. Now let me preface this that I do feel like Yoshi and team love the game, and are probably doing the best the can with what they're given. Just my own personal feeling on that.

However, I feel like him coming out and saying it's OK for people to unsub and come back for patches only is more for damage control and to help sway opinions regarding the amount of content. I can't imagine any developer would intentionally provide just enough content to keep people subbed for say 3 months, and then are happy that they unsub for the next 6 months or so. Bottom line is that they are losing money when people unsub.

So yeah, them coming out and saying it's cool to take breaks feels more like they are now trying to put the blame for any lull a person may feel on the player (this is your fault for staying subbed all this time! What did you expect would happen!?) vs them owning up to there just not being enough content to stretch far. And then you get the people who happily will toss that reasoning in your face whenever you mention how the content seems minimal. They've created their own perfect defense and army who will defend them.

Obviously no company is going to come out and declare they are aware that they lack content, so I suppose props to the team for spinning things in a way that works in their favor.

I can see how you'd see it that way, but I disagree. Primarily due to the fact that other companies, say- Bethesda and EA, will try to trick the consumer into constantly paying for something really and wholly not worth it. Both massive names in gaming, but anyone who's payed attention has seen their BS in its entirety.

Something not working? Pay premium to get special treatment. Something not to your liking? Have some cash shop bonuses as a distraction. Breaks? No don't take breaks! Buy more!

And for that, I don't think it's a tactic to side step, but one of earnest.

[ForteNightshade]

I can see how you'd see it that way, but I disagree. Primarily due to the fact that other companies, say- Bethesda and EA, will try to trick the consumer into constantly paying for something really and wholly not worth it. Both massive names in gaming, but anyone who's payed attention has seen their BS in its entirety.

Something not working? Pay premium to get special treatment. Something not to your liking? Have some cash shop bonuses as a distraction. Breaks? No don't take breaks! Buy more!

And for that, I don't think it's a tactic to side step, but one of earnest.

You do realize FFXIV is the only MMO that charges a rental service for additional inventory and has been notorious for not providing nearly enough given the sheer amount of glamour and crafting materials released? Not that I want to defend Bethesda and EA because they have garbage practices but lets not go pretending Square Enix hasn't dipped their toe in money grabbing tendencies either. They've simply avoided the more controversial ones, i.e. lootboxes.