Shadowbringers starting to feel like a budget expansion

[dinnertime]

With the amount of success FFXIV received after Shadowbringers, SE will probably be more than willing to invest more onto this game. Keep in mind, a lot of the Shadowbringers content has been in development during Stormblood like they've explained before, while they're developing the next expansion right now.

Also we're still in 5.2. Very early in the expansion's lifetime.

[Kalise]

Don't worry, they added in a Ishguardian Restoration and Ocean Fishing, so leveling Crafters and Gatherers is even more stupidly easy!

That's great content right? Right?

Oh, and we have new Relic Tools too, which are unecessary given how crafting is easy enough without them, you can craft HQ Pentameld tools or failing that you can half-ass things and just get White Scrip tools... But hey, the tools are shiny and totally cooler than the Golden ones introduced into the game in ARR right?

To be fair ARR first step of the relic only required you to do a very basic quest, kill Hydra/Chimera and that was it. Then came chaos for the next steps.
HW you could completely bypass the first step if you already had your relic from ARR, or all you were required to do were FATEs and pray RNG was on your side.
Fast forward to SB and Eureka and, again, the actual tasks you had to perform weren't that challenging.

ARR Relic Weapon first step:

- Pick up an item from a zone
- Get a Crafted Weapon (Uses items dropped in Wanderer's Palace if you want to craft yourself) and double Meld it
- Do a unique Trial vs Chimera
- Go through Amdapor Keep
- Kill a few overworld enemies
- Do another unique Trial vs Hydra
- Beat Ifirit (Hard)
- Beat Garuda (Hard)
- Beat Titan (Hard)
- Buy some oil for 15 poetics

HW Relic first step:

- Farm FATEs in every HW zone for crystals until you have one from each zone.

StB Relic first step:

- Get 1300 Protean Crystals
- Get 3 Pazuzu Feathers

ShB Relic first step:

- Do a solo duty
- Watch some cutscenes

With the extra weapons being:
- Have 1000 poetics

Even with the nerfs (I.e. Buffs) to HW crystal drop rates, ShB's first step is probably the shortest one. Even with the 1k poetics a pop, given how easy it is to farm poetics these days.

By the way, this was only the first step. HW released with 2 additional steps to progress the weapon.

ARR's 5 HM trials and 1-2 dungeons (Depending on if you were crafting your base weapon or buying from MB), HW's FATE farm (Which you can skip if you hand over your Zodiac weapon, not the other steps released alongside this) and StB's Eureka grind were much more time consuming than ShB's

Which is generally the point of the Relic weapons. To be time consuming, so that you have reason to play the game you pay $10 a month to access. Since that's the idea behind subscription games, you get value out of the monthly fee because you can play it a bunch.

[DevilsDontFly]

It's also worth mentioning that so far this expansion gave us more housing wards, gatherer content with Diadem, ocean fishing, more gold saucer attractions, the restoration of Ishgard, craft and gatherer revamp, lots of quality of life changes, new map dungeons and yet another crafter revamp that will be coming soon.

But I guess PVE is where it's at and the rest is irrelevant. Even though said PVE content is not even bad to begin with.

[Gemina]

Au Ra could wear headgear at launch
Play Au Ra

Au Ra could wear all hairstyles at launch
Play Au Ra

Au Ra had both genders
Play one of the two genders for Au Ra

SAM and RDM still got level 60 primal and tome weapons despite being outdated content, and everything from level 50.
They got: Bismarck, Ravana, Thordan, Sephirot, Sophia, Nidhogg, Zurvan, All tome weapons (Hellfire and Shire), All three Alexander raid tiers. On top of all the base primals like Shiva and Ifrit, etc.
SAM and RDM both had PVP weapon models right away.
SAM and RDM continued to have new models added through 60+ content
These type of disappointments are a lot like when people got mad that there was no 4th healer, or male Viera with ShB. A false expectation was created based off of a 'formula' or pattern SE uses when releasing new content. You didn't honestly expect them to keep updating all the weapons for new jobs with each expansion did you? That's reworking old content. IOW, A total waste of time and resources.

Stormblood had new PVP content and glamours shipped out the gate.
Stormblood launched with a complete PVP overhaul (not a good thing though)
So why even bring up PvP?

3 dungeons per patch in HW
2 dungeons per patch in SB
1 dungeon per patch in ShB...
So what? Next expansion zero dungeons? This isn't an issue of limited resources or budget. Dungeons have quite honestly become these gates not very many people care to do. This also likely includes the dev team when it comes to designing them.

Relics that took longer than an hour to get
Do you really think you're done? Or even close?

Savages had unique and innovative mechanics
2 Ultimates
I can't speak much for savage or ultimate

Deep dungeons
I will side with you here, and this was something that definitely concerned me

but in Shadowbringers...
I'll cut off here because many of the responses would just be the same. Much of the content we do get is rinse and repeat from previous expansions. Many old mechanics are reused, given a twist, or mixed with other mechanics, new and old. Not everything from one expansion will carry over to the next. This is to be expected in any mmo. What we do hope for though is fresh content to replace what doesn't carry over. That is why no Deep Dungeon worries me the most as this content was HUGE. Many, many subscriber hours have been spent within the DDs.

Also should take note that artisans and gatherers have gotten a lot of love this expansion, and it is something they've been needing for quite some time.

All that aside; now is probably not the best time to be griping about a provider's budget. Take the silver spoon out of your mouth and take a look around.

[Voidedge_Ragna]

Ohoh, Careful you are gonna attract the team of defenders saying this is a budget game, how dare you say this.
Its really hard to keep everything predictable, add hardly anything new and copy what we have from other games/FF games.

But to keep it real, 5.0 was massive and even though i did not fully like the ending because it once again pitted us against darkness as the warrior of light, even though it build us up as the warrior of darkness the entire patch was imo a wasted chance to have us take down a light based enemy, i didn't enjoy the crystal exarch but thats mostly due to the community but i also realize thats subjective.

Now what happend after ... we got the usual stuff, Tomestones in 2 flavors and a 4 raid boss with 2 Original bosses. The main sidekicks play a role in these, that is a problem. Why? To put it simple a character thats include in a side mission become immortal in the current add on, this sort of takes the steam out of it for me. Imagine you burn through 5.5 and have for sample Thancred die ... to go back to the side quest in which hes alive. Just a side node Y'shtola was not to be seen in these quests ... or was she?

Map Dungeons, okay so "mimimi who does map dungeons" Our fc does every week with fc paid maps, so whats the problem? The amount of times we actually get a good drop is way less then in HW and SB, and its actually less items as well, they basically only add the 1 new crafting item and every now and then a minion. There are like 2-3 encounters per door, which was dumped down, there is no roulette version or new take on the map dungeon either. The amount of doors was reduced and the likelihood of opening them was reduced as well to cover for this, this makes a lot of runs rather short.

Dungeons were skipped ... they told us this yea but honestly the same 2 Dungeons in a Expert roulette is just annoying, this also means we will likely not see a new take on old dungeons as the additional dungeon was often a "hard" mode dungeon which is annoying to see.

Deep dungeon is being skipped, this is a big one for me. Our team loved doing these to 100/200 for the extra challenge and a lot of players use these to level up. While i agree that leveling in potd/hoh is not going to teach you your job well, it was still an option.

We got High-Sea-Fishing, which is good on a first glance, but lacks reason to replay it, i got the mount and minion on my first ride "wow great for you" yea ... it took some friends 10+ rides because ppl skipped out after the first area did not yield a current. All fish are pointless, i went in with a friend saying "ill get a rare one!" and did, to see it was worth 500 gil. Theres nothing to desynthesis either, and the fish are not used in a recipe ... also you only get white scrips for the rare fish. So you cant get money, items, scrips ... whats left? Titles and 1 mount. One and done ...

ShB borrows heavy from nostalgia and hopes everyone has the thick pink glasses on, a lot of bosses, npcs are simply recycled because their fan favorites.

Theres no new Eureka like areas ... to do stuff in, i know a lot of you hated Eureka and thats ok and heres hope SE will/would have learned from it but w/o any doubt it gave us something to do, another place to spent time, chill and still work towards something. This is still missing ... we are almost a year in!

The Nier raid was amazing, fresh air in terms of what was allowed to them ... 4 bosses 2 trash pulls. I hope SE lifts their restrictions and simply lets them go wild, dear god ... maybe 5 bosses?! it could break the system! A flight face?

The new relic is yet another step into the wrong direction, why do we remove the grind? Imo the relics should've been added with 5.0 or 5.1 latest and give players that achieved everything they wanted something to work towards and not wait almost an entire year, there is nothing wrong with it being grindy if its the last thing you can do. Also keep in mind that every side quest, has nothing to do with the main story ... so what happend to cid, has no relevance on the main story ... which it should? It was character building and his past.

We skipped the Hm trial, and the trial we got has less tome rewards then ruby weapons, which is just strange. And i know the HM trial is supposed to be the trust one ... but it really isn't. The weapons are added by getting poetics? WHAT? a Tomestone mostly irrelevant now put there is simply strange. Also Ruby weapon was killed, all weapons are 100% obsolete now since you can basically run MSQ roulette twice and get your endgame weapon that is only beaten by Savage likely.

Please SE step out of your "30 Ilv curse and stop having everything predictable or half backed" Everything is predictable ... 5.3 is going to have crafting gear and nier raid ... 5.4 is the new tome stone and new raid ... why? keep us on our toes, add new things we did not see coming. We already know the last trials are going to be weapons and one could even calculate the ilv they drop since this is so predicable ... the only thing we dont know is the msq.

[Halivel]

People are dissapointed about 1 dungeon per patch, as if they daily do all those we had so far. What's the sense of having 3 dungeons every patch now, if they will last until next expert roulette refresh and then they fall into "maybe I will show up once in next 5 years" state? Not that long ago I had Sohr Khai showing up in 50/60/70 rouellette for the first time in 3 years. Was sitting there like "O_o... o_O... O_O was there such a dungeon before????" because I forgot about its existence. That said, that would be good to have more dungeons, but let's be honest, we already have more than 70 and most of them are done few times while they were still new thanks to expert roulette, and then forgotten before roulette suddenly drops them on you. Before making more and more dungeons there should be done something to make them alive even 4 years after release. As it is now, I would prefer 1 really good dungeon (and all ShB dungeons so far were just this for me) to 3 middle-quality ones.

Palace of the Dead was released in 3.35. Heaven on High was released in 4.35. And unless I missed something, we got only 5.25 yesterday, so I won't jump ahead in conclusion about not having deep dungeon in this expansion for now.

Bahamut Ultimate was released in 4.11. Alexander Ultimate was released in 5.11. Omega Ultimate was released in 4.36... and again, we aren't in 5.36 yet and won't be until summer.

Can agree with the fact that DNC and GNB got quite a low amount of available options, though. Also still don't understand why they skipped Zurvan and Susano and came straight to Shinryu, but it is what it is. Maybe they'll add them later. I hope.

Relic on first phase never was really long to obtain. If anything, old relics also didn't have a separate, MSQ-related full-fledged Story Line (except Eureka to some exctent, I guess), which Resistance Weapons do. They had its story ofc, but nowhere near to what was given here. Again - it's a 1st phase. We've no idea about what kind of grind will await us in next update. Also don't forget that people were unhappy with Eureka because it was grindy... now they give something else and people are unhappy again, but now because it's not grindy. Welp.

I'm not the fan of what happened with Viera and Hrothgar, especially with genderlock, but having two full races at once was impossible to begin with. With how our gear works, adjusting 6 years of gear was most likely a mess as it is. And coming back to HW, Yoshida openly said that their decision to create new race + 3 new jobs + their schedule with dungeons and other content was a mistake. The sitatuion with haircuts is a pity, though. The only hope we have with them at this point is that they work on fixing this, even if without saying a word.

I'm personally a bit disappointed about no Hildibrand in this expansion (he was usually added at this point in schedule), but there are no new zones on the Source this time (and each arc took place in appropriate region), and it's doubtfull they would bring him on the First, so I guess he'll be back in next expansion. We'll see.

To sum all of this: why people rush ahead? I can get dissapoitment about some things like with how unpolished new races were or no old primal weapons for new jobs (which, looking at Shinryu crafted gear, probably will be changed with time), but for a lot of them it's just "I want this thing right now" and nothing else, like 2nd ultimate and deep dungeon, for instance.

In state of the game as it is now there is plenty to do, and they add plenty of new things as well (if anything, DoH/DoL content in this expansion is amazing). If you're done 100% with absolutely all content it has or it's not to your liking, take your short break untill next patch or event, play something else, then go back when something you like is released. Yoshida himself encourages playing other games and not fixating all your free time solely on FF14.

[KDSilver]

Check forums.
Every expansion always feel lack there's a huge lack of content.

[Altera]

I find the content of Shadowbringers to be higher in quality. If I get more cool dungeons, trials and raids like currently, I dont mind going from 3 dungeons down to 1. Plus a lot of the other side content like Ishgard Restoration, Relic weapon and Skysteel crafting, even the new Diadem has been enjoyable. Story, Eden, YorHa Dark Apocalypse, dungeons, crafting rework and much more has been really well done, and we still havent reached 5.3 and we have prolly to 5.55 or 5.6 to go.
As for the races, if people would stop demanding too much, they might not have had to make 2 different races due to people wanting Viera as well as a more feral looking race.
Having seen videos of gamedevelopment just how much time goes into making the models and getting them to work with the game's current gear, takes a loooot of time.
I have even had a 3D SFM model made of my character, and that alone took 3 artists I hired almost 6-7 months to do all the wireworks and texturing etc

Also do remember that the Corona situation might force the development team to be unable to meet up at the offices to work normally.

If this is a budget expansion with lack of content, please do tell me what MMO does it any better, as i know WOW, TESO, BDO, TERA is not even close to same level of polish and contentfilled

[MariaArvana]

ShB Relic first step:

- Do a solo duty
- Watch some cutscenes

With the extra weapons being:
- Have 1000 poetics

Even with the nerfs (I.e. Buffs) to HW crystal drop rates, ShB's first step is probably the shortest one. Even with the 1k poetics a pop, given how easy it is to farm poetics these days.

Sure, it may be the shortest, but considering the majority of old relic steps in ARR or HW (and even SB) were just 'spam x task 50,000 times to get weapon' or 'grind thousands of tomestones to proceed', that solo duty was infinitely miles more entertaining. Not to mention having an extreme trial for dyeable AF4 gear caught me by surprise and I had infinitely more fun with that then -afk tap a single button 1000 times to kill NMs while watching netflix & then waiting for the next NM in anemos- in SB for their dyeable gear. But I much prefer a shorter, quality experience over a dull, quantitative experience. I pay $15 a month to be entertained, not bored. Or worse, have netflix be my source of entertainment while the game is supposed to be trying to entertain me while I'm playing it.

I find the content of Shadowbringers to be higher in quality.

This. The raids, the 24 man, the trials, the MSQ, even the dungeons have felt miles higher quality than any non-ultimate content has been in literal -years-.

[Lersayil]

Speaking strictly from dev resources used point of view, I think we're fine. As others have said we've got plenty of stuff...

A shame very little of it holds more than a passing interest for me. I like crafting as a side-dish to combat, but it doesn't hold my interest on its own for months.

The lack of enduring combat content is starting to get pretty noticable.