The Devs have no idea what they are doing with FFXIV’s crafting and economics..

[Kuroka]

Personally I'd have thought the idea of "hey giving 10$ to an RMT seller would get me a full lv80 melded crafter set and a full 480ilv DoW set, sweet deal!" would encourage RMT far more than "man, 10$ would barely buy me a few pieces, eh guess I'll farm Eden".

But maybe that's just me.

I just checked that certain spammer #1 for a full 480 HQ set on sale they want 99$... like wtf?? That also equals 25 mill gil if you buy em... that is more then just gettin it from the mb and way more then most mats would be.

Its beyond me why ppl would do that, really...

[KageTokage]

Compared to a lot of other MMOs I've played, XIV's crafting is extremely accessible and without limitations/restrictions both in regards to what you can craft and how easily you can obtain the materials for it.

It's kind of a double-edged sword because while everyone being able to easily make everything is convenient, it doesn't make for a very good economy.

[Gula]

I love it when people who don't know a thing about what goes on internally say "the developers dont know the thing they do as a profession." /s

[Gemina]

Just going to point out a few things:

Then we saw “Crafting Recipes at Higher levels will be easier” and realized nothing has really changed, same easy difficulty as before. It’s come to many people’s attention that Square’s FFXIV team ( Yoshida and other devs ) have absolutely no flipping idea what they are doing when it comes to the game’s economy and crafting system. How many times do you need to make crafting easier for players? How many times are you going to nerf recipes that do not need to be nerfed? MAX MELDED PLAYERS SHOULD STILL HAVE A HARD TIME CRAFTING NEW RECIPES! it shouldnt be a cake walk even for them. the hell?

Not sure if you were around for the mess that was the previous cross class system for crafters. if you were, you will remember things like, "Level CRP to 50; CUL to 37, then ALC to..." You also might remember 6 of the 8 crafters having a unique brand/name of elements skill to add to the antiquated nonsense of the cross class system. You might remember classes like CUL being far more powerful than the others due to amount of skills it had innately, which allowed for more slots to equip skills from other classes; yet, it also was the class that could take advantage of that power the least.

You need to understand that things being made easier does not mean they don't know what they are doing, especially when crafting pre-ShB was a convoluted cobweb of ideas that had no synastry, no rhyme, no reason, and screamed for QoL changes. Pre ShB was a crafting system I am more inclined to believe that they had absolutely no idea what they were doing, and they finally organized that dusty office no one wanted the task of doing.

As much as I hated the move Reuse....you remove it? you do realize it was a brand new move that YOU put in the game? ....what the heck? and now you add Tax to everyone in the game, along with removing Gil as a reward from collectibles. lol why are you so concerned with Gil being handed out when you’ve been doing that for years? why is it all of a sudden a concern now, Yoshida team?

The skill Reuse only solidifies my previous statement. It was implemented when they had no idea what they were doing. It's gone now, and rightfully so. Other mistakes are not so easily erased. Things like the changes to taxes and removal of gil rewards from certain activities is to address the gil hoarders in the game. These changes effect the hoarder directly while having very little (if any) affect on those who spend gil regularly. Arguments like these don't do much to speak in favor of the little guy, but rather speak robustly about how your own earnings have been cut.

making regular crafting so mindless and easy...taxes....easy master books...you do realize that doesn’t motivate people to NOT buy gil.,,it makes them MORE LIKELY to buy gil from rmt. because you are essentially making everything in FFXIV so meaningless, with such little value, to the point where having a lot of Gil is hard as hell. because everyone and their momma is spamming the market with useless gear. you’re making it hard for newer players to earn a lot of Gil. only ones who have a lot of Gil are the vet players from 2.0 - 4.0 when things were still valuable.

Again, a new player's ability to earn gil in this game is hardly compromised. Crafted leveling gear is still the market that appeals to new players the most, and has remained mostly unchanged for years. They benefit because the HQ stuff they easily craft is purchased from max level players who don't care to craft these items themselves, even though they are more than capable. IOW, your argument would work if new players monopolized items on the market, but they don't; with the exception of some items hardcore MB players don't care to monopolize. Gil buyers aren't motivated. That's why they buy gil in the first place.

by the way...you once said you wanted to encourage people to not use macros? guess what, buttercup?! PEOPLE STILL USE AND SPAM MACROS! wtf? get rid of them or nerf macros somehow, but you won’t do that will you? you just want everything to be WoW style casual and mindless. gotcha. while you’re at it, implement a crafting action that instantly gives me max Quality and progress, daddy UwU ( that....that was a joke Yoshida, don’t actually do that lol. )

Who cares? No is telling you that you have to use macros. Devs were fools to think that players wouldn't figure out a way to macro new recipes. The way I see it is recipes that can't be macroed would very likely be too difficult to even be worth the attempt. Devs are never going to accomplish making recipes difficult using the current algorithms they do. The day they stop allowing players to have bloated stats for their "difficult" content, then they might have finally steered the ship in the right direction.

, yet you guys still refuse to address it properly and fix it properly. adding “Expert recipes” with rewards no hardcore player gives a F about isn’t the solution. really sad what you guys have turned such a wonderful MMO into. shame on you devs, honestly, shame.

When did they state that expert recipes were meant to address issues with crafting? And what do you mean rewards no hardcore players gives an F about? Do you think casuals are going to grind 8400 SB scrips to get themselves a monkey within the first week of its release? How about those 50k per crafter 'chievos? Do you think they are even going to attempt the expert recipes? The impression I get from your post is that you actually don't know a whole lot about the game and how its economy works, and are instead venting about your own personal experiences because they have been negative. You might want to reflect on the experiences of others before spewing that devs have ruined such a wonderful mmo.

[Jojoya]

Yes facts good point I'm always poor, I can't buy MB too much price........

So why are you always poor in a game that's throwing gil at you for doing almost any content other than PvP or Gold Saucer?

It's not unlike real life. If you work (do content), you get paid. If you hang out at the neighborhood park (Limsa Aetheryte) doing nothing but watching people, you don't.

I've got an alt isolated on another data center. She's hit 80 on her combat job but hasn't finished Stormblood MSQ yet. I've earned about 10 million gil on her, primarily from selling quest rewards she doesn't need and items brought back from retainer ventures on the MB. I did end up spending a lot of that on gear as she was leveling (no access to the right tomestone vendors because she was behind her level on MSQ) but she's still got over 3 million gil right now. If I was playing her more often, she'd have even more.

Probably the best way to make gil if you're not a hardcore crafter is to join treasure map parties. I can clear 200k gil alone in a 2 hour party, and that's not including the value of all the item drops I also get.

I love it when people who don't know a thing about what goes on internally say "the developers dont know the thing they do as a profession." /s

But economics isn't their profession. Game design is.

Several years ago, WoW players questioned the Blizzard dev team about why the in-game economies were such a mess. The response from Tom Chilton (the Game Director at the time) was no one on the dev team had taken more than a basic economics course in school so they didn't really know anything about it. They just designed systems to let players trade things around then left it up to players to work out the economics on their own.

It's pretty much the same here, with the big difference between FFXIV and WoW being that we have a limited number of MB listings per character where AH listings in WoW are unlimited. It stifles competition in FFXIV, which allows sellers to drive up prices due to limited availability.

But you also see player lack of economics knowledge displayed on the MB as well. All those bat fangs for 2 gil using up a listing spot instead of the player choosing to sell more valuable items. Things listed below the sell to vendor price when the player could just vendor them and make more gil.

[KageTokage]

Several years ago, WoW players questioned the Blizzard dev team about why the in-game economies were such a mess. The response from Tom Chilton (the Game Director at the time) was no one on the dev team had taken more than a basic economics course in school so they didn't really know anything about it. They just designed systems to let players trade things around then left it up to players to work out the economics on their own.

It's pretty much the same here, with the big difference between FFXIV and WoW being that we have a limited number of MB listings per character where AH listings in WoW are unlimited. It stifles competition in FFXIV, which allows sellers to drive up prices due to limited availability.

But you also see player lack of economics knowledge displayed on the MB as well. All those bat fangs for 2 gil using up a listing spot instead of the player choosing to sell more valuable items. Things listed below the sell to vendor price when the player could just vendor them and make more gil.

WoW's economy is pretty different from XIV's for a number of reasons, such as only two professions per character and bind on pick up materials frequently being required for crafts making it harder for people to corner a market (As the player needs to personally go out and acquire them) . I haven't actually played for a long while, but I never used to see the level of craft spamming from the same individuals happening like it does in XIV even though there's literally no effort involved in the crafting process there.

In XIV, the fact that you can have every single gathering/crafting profession maxed on one character on top of being able to buy all of the mats of the market board is partly why the bot farmers tend to maintain a stranglehold over a typical server market after the initial post-patch boom dies down.

[Kytrin]

WoW's economy is pretty different from XIV's for a number of reasons, such as only two professions per character and bind on pick up materials frequently being required for crafts making it harder for people to corner a market (As the player needs to personally go out and acquire them) . I haven't actually played for a long while, but I never used to see the level of craft spamming from the same individuals happening like it does in XIV even though there's literally no effort involved in the crafting process there.

Yeah, but on WoW you could also have 8 different characters all with different professions and mail things back and forth freely. So it was a pain in the butt, but you could get the vast majority of professions if you put in the effort. I personally like that you can just do them all on one character, it saves a lot of hassle for what I'd be doing anyway.

In XIV, the fact that you can have every single gathering/crafting profession maxed on one character on top of being able to buy all of the mats of the market board is partly why the bot farmers tend to maintain a stranglehold over a typical server market after the initial post-patch boom dies down.

Now, you've got a good point there. I wouldn't mind it if the scrip/tome mats were untradeable. That'd be just enough to force people to put in effort for their endgame food/gear/whatever outside of gil without making it absolutely obnoxious to get the majority of the materials.

[Cleanse]

WoW's economy is pretty different from XIV's for a number of reasons, such as only two professions per character and bind on pick up materials frequently being required for crafts making it harder for people to corner a market (As the player needs to personally go out and acquire them) . I haven't actually played for a long while, but I never used to see the level of craft spamming from the same individuals happening like it does in XIV even though there's literally no effort involved in the crafting process there.

In XIV, the fact that you can have every single gathering/crafting profession maxed on one character on top of being able to buy all of the mats of the market board is partly why the bot farmers tend to maintain a stranglehold over a typical server market after the initial post-patch boom dies down.

I think Jojoya's point was, game devs probably do not or did not have economists helping them plan their game's economy system. Also, she highlighted how individuals playing the game by large do not have experience being entrepreneurs.

[NanaWiloh]

I can't think of single MMO where the dev's have their hands deep in the games ecomony. Dev's add vendor prices and a Market system then leave the rest to the player base, their not going to set up a team to monitor and control the games ecomony.

[Illiandra]

surprised it took you 4 months to post, for as far as i'm concerned crafting died with the the release of 5.11 and the crazy amounts of xp people got for doing basicaly nothing. Sure people should be able to catch up but that catch up should have been way slower. The results of 5.11 showed very quickly on the MB with gear dropping to bottom prices. Any changes after that was just another nail in the coffin.
And than with todays release, this epic tool that i can now get, its worse than an overmelded facet tool, it will be nice to hang on the wall of my house but that about all its good for.
Regarding the gil sellers.. they could just look at how wow killed that.. buy gill straight from SE through these magical playtime tokens.