Dark Knight - I Used To Love You

[DRKoftheAzure]

I'm new player. My DRK is 74. Donno about previous versions so will just write about my experiences as new player. If i were to use 1 word i would say CRAP. DRK skill progression is insanely bad. Since i do lot of synced content i often don't have blood skills, Without it DRK is so boring i can almost die of boredom. Sure at 72 with completed AOE combo and TBN it gets better, but whenever synced the crappy feeling returns. I also play GNB, SAM and WAR. Won't talk about WAR i hate the job, got it at 69 will level it to 80 with MSQ Duty and that's it. Nothing wrong with it, i just don't like it. But GNB and SAM i really love. Those classes are very fun to play and GNB as long as i get synced to dung that is 30+ it still can be fun. Still have no mercy, blasting zone and cartrige so can do small burst comboses. Anyways it's funnier than DRK at 30. At 72 no point to even compare. GNB is simply insanely fun, it feels fast and is very flashy. I didn't write much about mechanics and viability cause all tanks can tank and will do the job, but it doesn't make them equally fun. They should really work on skill progression in this game, most of the classes feels like shit till 50 sometimes longer. It's not at all short time for new player. I'm betting lot of pplz will be put off by it and simply quit if they played any other MMORPG ever. Cause actually even F2p crappy mmorpg have better skill progressions most of the time. Game is good sure, prolly best MMORPG out there right now, but you spend lot of time fighting and fighting at low lv doesn't feel good at all. Problem is for this game low lv ends at 80.

FINALLY!!! SOMEONE WHO IS A NEW PLAYER GETS HOW BAD SYNCED CONTENT IS FOR TANKS!!! Also, if you love GNB and SAM, you might also like DRG.

They already have skills that evolves with levels. They should just have executed on it properly. I would do it like this: give all classes all their skills till 40 [half of max lv], but all of those skills would be weaker versions with lower potency not to ruin balance and not to bloat skill numbers. And then from 40+ you don't get new skills at all but all skills you have evolve into their proper versions. That would make few things better. 1st thing fight would be fun earlier. New players would have way more time to learn proper rotations and get proper muscle memory for classes they play than nowdays when they hit 80, get completed class at last and they must learn now how to play it in less forgiving lv 80 content. Cause if you get synced you can't earn a shit.

I can get behind the idea you proposed. So long as tanks aren't "spam 1-2-3 with the occasional 4th and/or 5th button for slightly more DPS for single target or 1-2 for AoE with the occasional 3rd and/or 4th button more DPS" I'm definitely down for this idea.

They should also avoid skill bloat. Yes i know they reduced skill numbers that's why classes changed so much. That's for the future content. Modern MMO go into quality and meaningful skills than sheer number of skills. So solution would be to either let's say limit number of skills and fuse some of the together or allow certain number of skills to be used like with Blue Mage. That would introduce builds, which could be interesting in it's own way and prevent skill bloat.

Ah yes the limited job approach... though I refuse touch BLU because I just don't see the appeal of it... Freelancer however, which I hope is basically the next limited job and is more like the FF5 Freelancer, I can definitely see test the waters for job builds better than Blue Mage ever could...

[Makeda]

FINALLY!!! SOMEONE WHO IS A NEW PLAYER GETS HOW BAD SYNCED CONTENT IS FOR TANKS!!!

Yeah but...

It's also bad for DPS. and Healers.

I think it's really only good for Blue Mages... :P

(who can't even run it... thus... enjoy it more than anyone else...)

I think FFXIV should have done what ESO did, and sync UP instead of sync DOWN.

They know this... it's what Deep Dungeons do. Which were added years after. It's just the 1.0 or 2.0 (I'm not sure as I wasn't around in 1,0) design that made the wrong choice...

They should go back and fix it all to sync UP, like Deep Dungeons, but not as badly balanced as Deep Dungeons...

I'm sure folks would say "they have more important things to focus on", except they don't - the roulette system ensures that the vast majority of us are in 1-6 sync'd pieces of content a day (level X/Y/Z, Leveling, Trial, Raid, Alliance, MSQ)...

Sync'd content is actually the majority of our gameplay...

Time to fix it... like ESO did... ESO also did that after launch... their sync UP system was a fix to the "WTF is this mess" situation they had before it. Granted the mess they had was basically ESO 1.0, and the current game is equivalent to 'ESO ARR'... Sync UP was just one of many things they changed...

Hindsight is like that... ESO's fix happened because they say the syncing in FFXIV and WoW and said "cool idea, let's take it and make it better"... so now it's time for FFXIV to say "cool treatment of OUR idea you have there, we're going to one-up it now."

(and yes I know sync UP & sync DOWN both actually started with City of Heroes... but that system was just a lesson in 'here is how to NOT do this idea, the idea is good, but this version of it is bad'.)

[Kabooa]

I probably wouldn't hate Satasha so much if I could foul their stupid faces off.

[MerlinCross]

Yeah but...

It's also bad for DPS. and Healers.

I think it's really only good for Blue Mages... :P

(who can't even run it... thus... enjoy it more than anyone else...)

I think FFXIV should have done what ESO did, and sync UP instead of sync DOWN.

They know this... it's what Deep Dungeons do. Which were added years after. It's just the 1.0 or 2.0 (I'm not sure as I wasn't around in 1,0) design that made the wrong choice...

They should go back and fix it all to sync UP, like Deep Dungeons, but not as badly balanced as Deep Dungeons...

I'm sure folks would say "they have more important things to focus on", except they don't - the roulette system ensures that the vast majority of us are in 1-6 sync'd pieces of content a day (level X/Y/Z, Leveling, Trial, Raid, Alliance, MSQ)...

Sync'd content is actually the majority of our gameplay...

Time to fix it... like ESO did... ESO also did that after launch... their sync UP system was a fix to the "WTF is this mess" situation they had before it. Granted the mess they had was basically ESO 1.0, and the current game is equivalent to 'ESO ARR'... Sync UP was just one of many things they changed...

Hindsight is like that... ESO's fix happened because they say the syncing in FFXIV and WoW and said "cool idea, let's take it and make it better"... so now it's time for FFXIV to say "cool treatment of OUR idea you have there, we're going to one-up it now."

(and yes I know sync UP & sync DOWN both actually started with City of Heroes... but that system was just a lesson in 'here is how to NOT do this idea, the idea is good, but this version of it is bad'.)

It's bad for everyone but some jobs really don't feel right when synced down due to their changes. Compared DRK to say, DRG a class who hasn't really changed much since release. It feels weird to suddenly not have BotD for Dragoon and you do feel weaker yes but you still have a very effective damage loop and abilities to help yourself out.

DRK at lower levels feels kneecapped, to the point I would love to see the data of how many people picked up a jump potion.

[Thanad]

DRK got it's uses. When i'm tired and sleepy i can just pick it up and mindlessly spam 1-2-3 with ocasional edge of darkness or unleash + flood of darkness. With how slow that class is even sleeping mind can handle it. I wish they gave you blood skills at 30 and darkness at 60. That 10% buff at low lv is crap anyways i'd rather have 2 more skills early. Unleash should also generate blood so you can spam Quaietus earlier than lv 72.

[DRKoftheAzure]

DRK got it's uses. When i'm tired and sleepy i can just pick it up and mindlessly spam 1-2-3 with ocasional edge of darkness or unleash + flood of darkness. With how slow that class is even sleeping mind can handle it. I wish they gave you blood skills at 30 and darkness at 60. That 10% buff at low lv is crap anyways i'd rather have 2 more skills early. Unleash should also generate blood so you can spam Quaietus earlier than lv 72.

Let's not forget how weak Stalwart Soul is by the time you get it... it's a level 72 spell that has a required combo action to get the full benefits... and 160 potency is the best they could come up with for DRK... and what are the benefits? 20 Blood gauge and 600 flat MP generation... Stormblood Dark Knight had a better AoE DPS loop(and in general) and generated more MP AND Blood gauge than Shadowbringers Dark Knight... and by Shadowbringers Dark Knight I mean Dark Warrior because that's what Dark Knight is this expansion, just a re-skin of WAR with no real thought to put into it other than "here's what NOT to do for the next expansion" but we all know Square-Enix prefers making a quick buck over staying for the long term...

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised when(not "IF") FF14 goes free to play and actually give players what they actually want because the money whales have nothing better to spend their money on... but by then it will be too late...

[Thanad]

Well since they removed old Dark Arts they should have removed it all the way. Edge of Darkness and Flood or Darkness aren't worth it. When TBN is destroyed it should grant Delirium buff separate from Delirium skill ofc. That would at least make it funnier with Bloodsplitter and Quaietus spam. Plus you would still have Delirium Skill for even more spam.

[Stuxy]

I enjoy drk . Granted It’s my first max level tank so I never played any previous tanks in endgame content. I just wish using TBN correctly would be more rewarding!

[DRKoftheAzure]

Well since they removed old Dark Arts they should have removed it all the way. Edge of Darkness and Flood or Darkness aren't worth it. When TBN is destroyed it should grant Delirium buff separate from Delirium skill ofc. That would at least make it funnier with Bloodsplitter and Quaietus spam. Plus you would still have Delirium Skill for even more spam.

Still spamming 1-2-3 there for the rest of the fight...

I enjoy drk .

No comment...

Granted It’s my first max level tank so I never played any previous tanks in endgame content.

No comment...

I just wish using TBN correctly would be more rewarding!

I agree, using TBN correctly should be more rewarding... though it won't fix the "spam 1-2-3 for the entire fight" issue that most tank have...

[Satarn]

Haven't been around tank forums for a while, but glad to see there's still fresh DRK salt going - as there should be.

SHB DRK is an insult to players' intelligence, riddled with pretend-mechanics which solve themselves by design, leaving not much more than an illusion of game-play.
The MP rates are calculated to fit exactly into the 60 second raid bursts with zero management required, that including the one TBN you optimally use. Darkside is impossible to drop due to being tied to literally everything you can spend MP on. Living shadow having to be activated before burst means you'll always have the 50 ready, as there's no reason to accidentally dump Blood before that.
The job nearly plays itself.

From what I see here and have seen since SHB's launch, most praise for reworked DRK boils down to "TBN is kewl"(except it was an SB skill and way more interesting back then, so how's that a + for SHB?) and "I disliked old DRK because it was too demanding, I preferred the other tanks being simpler, but now I like DRK!".

Well here's a bigbrain idea for ya - you could've just played the other tanks.

The main appeal of DRK for a lot of people, was exactly that it was the ONE more complex, faster paced option and we found that way more engaging. Now it's gone and we've got ZERO options, because the shiny new GNB isn't actually any more complicated than the rest, once you actually play it a bit(or just read the skill tooltips really). More buttons doesn't instantly mean more complexity and neither does more ogcds - not if it's all just brainlessly unloaded at once every minute(kinda like all DRK does now, huh).
Previous iterations of DRK were more complex because of how its skills and resources interacted with each other and how you had to constantly keep track of them. If you disliked that, then you had twice as many jobs without it - now would be thrice. What you considered to be a mess - we found fun. What you see as "smooth" - we consider boring. We don't ask for all tanks to be catered to us - just the one.

The most ironic part is that right now PLD is indeed the most complex, well-designed mechanically tank - you know, the old go-to "relaxed tank" - while the rest are more or less just pieces of PLD with some iteration of Wrath stacks slapped on it, without much rhyme or reason.