Ranged has lower DPS due to full uptime but all other jobs also have full uptime

[dinnertime]

and brd remeber you guys are the one that screamm reaaaalll harddd to have more support instead of damage, and thats what you got (i must say most of you probably dont want it this way, but what you ask is what you got)

But they didn't? They outright removed the support utilities of Bard in 5.0 and put it back because of outrage, and yet it still was only half of what it used to be. They also nerfed Bard's potencies to compensate when it actually didn't compensate for anything.

[Ramura_Sono]

But they didn't? They outright removed the support utilities of Bard in 5.0 and put it back because of outrage, and yet it still was only half of what it used to be. They also nerfed Bard's potencies to compensate when it actually didn't compensate for anything.

Bard still retained half of it's support abilities though. TP/MP songs would have had little to no value with the removal of TP and the changes to Lucid. Bards screamed that the loss of the passive song buffs ruined the job's identity. There was an entire thread where they asked to have them returned, even at the cost of pdps. Of course, when they got exactly what they asked for there was immediately another thread complaining about the subsequent nerf to pdps with many of the complainers having been supporters in the first thread.

[dinnertime]

Bard still retained half of it's support abilities though. TP/MP songs would have had little to no value with the removal of TP and the changes to Lucid. Bards screamed that the loss of the passive song buffs ruined the job's identity. There was an entire thread where they asked to have them returned, even at the cost of pdps. Of course, when they got exactly what they asked for there was immediately another thread complaining about the subsequent nerf to pdps with many of the complainers having been supporters in the first thread.

That's literally what I said.

[Akiudo]

Bard still retained half of it's support abilities though. TP/MP songs would have had little to no value with the removal of TP and the changes to Lucid. Bards screamed that the loss of the passive song buffs ruined the job's identity. There was an entire thread where they asked to have them returned, even at the cost of pdps. Of course, when they got exactly what they asked for there was immediately another thread complaining about the subsequent nerf to pdps with many of the complainers having been supporters in the first thread.

bard never screamed "that the loss of the passive song buffs ruined the job's identity." they screamed that the loss of buffs in general, both dps aswell as "real" support ruined the jobs identity, passive song buffs simply were a part of the package. Also yes some bards said they would be fine with lower personal dps for higher dps support i.e. passive song buffs, however literally no one said "nerf our personal dps by 600 and in exchange let us buff the group for 650 dps", which is pretty much what we got, mind you that was in a patch were physical ranged as a whole were promised buffs. Heck, if you look back at the site that shall not be named and look at the time frame during the last raid tier when the "buffs" happened if you look at relative dps values instead of absolute numbers you will see that bard actually dropped in performance after that patch as they buffed basically everyone aside from blackmage, bard (compared to other classes as a whole) actually got weaker in the patch that was supposed to buff the physical ranged. And yes, refresh would be useless with the changes to lucid, changes to lucid that were made as their was no more refresh, that does not mean that it didn't take a big chunk out of the whole "support" identity just because in the current game having refresh would be nearly useless.

[Renkei]

Current Physical Ranged and Melee are both responsible for being buffed by others to do good DPS while some classes only offer buffs to 1 type of damage, there are others that have no buffs yet still do more RDPS then the other classes, Nearly all Support abilities got hard-nerfed during this expansion cycle, It's a huge step back from the balance of the previous expansion that encouraged your team not to be selfish and promoting synergy, but instead they decided this expansion would cater towards those who are selfish instead, I don't except any huge changes or anything due to the developers being busy with their new game. this is why i disagree with the design philosophy behind dancer it displaced the majority of jobs abilities and gutted bard for no reason, This expansion is the best story wise though, but not to much with the end game fights boss creativity, or balance that's for sure...

[Miziliti]

and brd remeber you guys are the one that screamm reaaaalll harddd to have more support instead of damage, and thats what you got (i must say most of you probably dont want it this way, but what you ask is what you got)

Yeah, BRD ask for a rib. SE throws bone at them. You call that 1% pity buff a proper support? All I know is that my party have the buff icon on, so I feel they are supported. Who knows if they feel anything at all.

[Karshan]

People optimize to get that, it's not there out of the box, and doing that optimization for a melee is many times harder than it ever is for us ranged.

There really isn't a reason ranged should do more damage unless their uptime is challenging. I'd prefer something like a range positional where you have to be at optimal range for full potency. Something like that would easily justify ranged role as a whole getting buffed. Otherwise, it's kind of moot to say ranged need to be on par with other roles that have a harder time with doing damage. Casters though could use a nerf. BLM and SMN are really strong by their own right and being able to bring two and being just as effective shouldn't be a thing. Melees have it the hardest and as a result should have the highest dps ceiling.

Playing both caster and melee (on the reroll), I think absolutely not. Though SMN is overtuned, your "being able to bring two and being just as effective shouldn't be a thing" is moot. Why the fuck not ? I could turn it in why 2 melees should be mandatory ? I don't see any reason for it.

Melee are not god skilled, stop with that nonsense.

[Renkei]

Playing both caster and melee (on the reroll), I think absolutely not. Though SMN is overtuned, your "being able to bring two and being just as effective shouldn't be a thing" is moot. Why the fuck not ? I could turn it in why 2 melees should be mandatory ? I don't see any reason for it.

Melee are not god skilled, stop with that nonsense.

No Class is god skilled in this game, that's a broad generalization, some jobs require more team-work then others, melee requires more exact positioning of the boss, since positional bonuses are more like penalties then bonuses, just like how casters require safe positioning to prevent being walked over or interrupted

I mean bringing two melee isn't the same thing as bringing two summoners, or two samurai but i get what you are trying to say, right now its probably in every-ones best interest to run 3 casters and a melee.

[Karshan]

No Class is god skilled in this game, that's a broad generalization, some jobs require more team-work then others, melee requires more exact positioning of the boss, since positional bonuses are more like penalties then bonuses, just like how casters require safe positioning to prevent being walked over or interrupted

I mean bringing two melee isn't the same thing as bringing two summoners, or two samurai but i get what you are trying to say, right now its probably in every-ones best interest to run 3 casters and a melee.

It's just that to me, "being able to bring two and being just as effective shouldn't be a thing" can be translated into : go do what you want with your two spots for 6 classes while we harness 2 systematically for 4 classes, and don't complain.

Well I'm gonna say there's no particular reason for that harness and if you try to impose it on me I'm gonna complain.

[Renkei]

It's just that to me, "being able to bring two and being just as effective shouldn't be a thing" can be translated into : go do what you want with your two spots for 6 classes while we harness 2 systematically for 4 classes, and don't complain.

Well I'm gonna say there's no particular reason for that harness and if you try to impose it on me I'm gonna complain.

I care more about the people behind the composition then the composition itself, it's more important to have fun and it's pointless to ostracize people based on their preferences.

Unfortunately right now there are some limitations on what jobs you can double up on or even run 4 of that cause some wonky stuff to happen, but for the most part you can run all casters and ranged, but things like 4 melee can be mega rough, but if you guys want to do it for fun then more power to you go for it, don't let anyone tell you that you cannot do something just because its not "meta"