How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[Kalise]

I see nothing in the Tank trait tooltip indicating a damage reduction. What are you guys talking about?

"Reduces damage taken by 20%. Furthermore, grants a bonus to maximum HP is granted based on your vitality attribute, and a bonus to damage dealt based on your strength attribute."

What is being referred to is that, it's a case of the description being technically correct. Specifically the part about gaining a "Bonus to damage dealt based on your strength attribute"

Essentially, Tanks DO get bonus damage based on their strength. Just, at a rate that is 20% less than what other jobs get from their primary attribute (Maybe healers are in a similar boat? It's hard to say given that they have low potency skills anyway even if they scaled at a normal rate, unlike Tanks whom have 600/800/920 potency skills)

[ReiMakoto]

"Reduces damage taken by 20%. Furthermore, grants a bonus to maximum HP is granted based on your vitality attribute, and a bonus to damage dealt based on your strength attribute."

What is being referred to is that, it's a case of the description being technically correct. Specifically the part about gaining a "Bonus to damage dealt based on your strength attribute"

Essentially, Tanks DO get bonus damage based on their strength. Just, at a rate that is 20% less than what other jobs get from their primary attribute (Maybe healers are in a similar boat? It's hard to say given that they have low potency skills anyway even if they scaled at a normal rate, unlike Tanks whom have 600/800/920 potency skills)

I think its a bit more than 20% less than what other jobs get if im reading the how to be a math wizard document right, every other job gets a x165 in their attack function, whereas tanks get a x115 in the part of the fomula that utilises main stat.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.cptqvz54gx6a

This means if we were take an arbitrary Attack Power stat of 1000 for sake of argument.

floor[165*(1000-340)/340]+100= 420
floor[115*(1000-340)/340]+100= 323

based on this its like more ~25% less damage.

Healers won't suffer this issue as we are existing in a state where everyones gaining main stat at the same rate as each other, it is only tanks that is returning a lower value based on this value. The only way healers suffer from this is they get a substat that contributes 0 damage, but the effect of substats is less pronounced.
(note I could have read this document wrong because im only glancing it, but given how they all combine multiplicatively in some way im pretty confident ive understood it right)

[ArianeEwah]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.cptqvz54gx6a

This means if we were take an arbitrary Attack Power stat of 1000 for sake of argument.

floor[165*(1000-340)/340]+100= 420
floor[115*(1000-340)/340]+100= 323

based on this its like more ~25% less damage.

Thanks for the sheet. I would like to change that example tho... 1000 AP seems unfitting for lvl 80.
The lowest AP value on iLvl 430 is ~3460 on tanks, and 3560 on other roles. AP on current BiS would be ~4770+ on tanks, ~4870 on others.
If we put those into the equation, we get:

iLvl 430 all f(ATK) = 1.662
iLvl 430 tank f(ATK)=1.155

~30.5% less damage

iLvl 500 all f(ATK) = 2.298
iLvl 500 tank f(ATK)=1.598

again ~30.5% less damage.

In addition to this, DPS jobs have stronger buffs and/or potencies, and according to a certain website that sums up the statistics *cough* f *cough* f *cough* lo- sry.
Tanks do < 60% damage of DPS jobs. In comparison, in Alexander and Omega raid tiers dealt about 70-80%, tho those with 80% happened because of Warrior being an OP job back then, when they dealt 15-30% more dps than PLD - the lowest dps tank. Granted, tanks were more vulnerable back then, too.

I'm not sure whether the trade-off increased defense vs decresed damage is justified, may it be solo or party play. Yet one fact remains: The tank dps drop from previous expansions is huge, it's more than 10%, and tank veterans feel that.

I'd put it on SE really.

They're the ones who keep mentioning how they think "Tank damage is too high"

Then they're the ones who made this change in such a backhanded way, by hiding the damage reduction in the trait that says you get "a bonus to damage dealt based on your strength attribute" and then further hiding it by giving all Tanks really high potency attacks to try and pacify people who won't do the math to realize that their damage is not where it should be given such skills.

I don't get this either. Why nerfing the AP of tanks through a trait, why locking tanks out from STR accessories, but not adding STR on tank gear, why adding VIT into damage calculation, why artificially lowering tank STR value through hidden stat trait on other roles (yes, other roles get main stat buffs through "hidden traits" while tanks get VIT buffs) etc.
Why not simply lower tank potencies? Would this screw up lower levels/old content? Might this scare people away from playing tank 'cause of lower potencies?
Instead we have multiple (imho) over-the-top complicated formulas that lead to the same result. I don't really get the system behind.

Nevertheless, I am glad that the "only tanks have to meld STR" era is finally over after so many years. The changes done to the accessories are great, honestly should've been part of Stormblood. I am still in two minds about the tank mastery trait...