nerfing orbonne was hella unnecessary

[Canadane]

They’ve stealth nerfed every 24 man so far.
I wonder why they were open about this one.

[lolicon09]

sadly, SE cares a lot about the idio.... players who cannot press more than one button at a time

[TheMightyMollusk]

They want people to get through the Ivalice raids to do the relic quests starting in 5.25. This has nothing to do with people cheesing the roulette. That's still gonna happen.

[Esmoire]

It looks like this time, they specifically targeted stuff where if a few players mess up, everyone suffers. This exists in all content, though it feels kind of shitty when Party A has two people who mess up, Party B has two people who mess up, oh darn we all need to start over again because got double dosage of collective punishment. I notice in Shadowbringers, at least in normal content, they are moving more towards still having everyone to compensate for the mistakes of another, but the focus is shifted ever-so-slightly to the individual player. If someone breaks a containment unit on the first boss of The Twinning, everyone has to deal with the add, but only the player who actually broke it gets the vuln stack.

I think it's less about difficulty, but more so the bigger picture of social engineering in an MMORPG. I don't mind having to try again if people mess up, but when you hurl in droves of people wanting to get started on their relic weapons, you'll find a lot of people aggravated being stuck at the same boss for an hour in roulette content just because a small handful of players don't get it. The capacity for players to sabotage the success for others is in all content, from the first dungeon you participate in, and this is part of an MMO game, but the extent varies wildly, and I think it's good if they keep the proportions within tighter bounds. The fight soon to follow, with Ultima and the falling sword angel thingies is a better balance. Still punishing if people mess up, but it asks that fewer players understand what to do, as opposed to asking 75% of all players understand they need to distribute themselves on the pads to stop annihilation, or being randomly selected with a very volatile mechanic that can cause the wipe for everybody else.

[Enla]

no it wouldnt. orbonne is level 70 so its permanently locked at the max ilvl for level 70 (all alliance raids work this way). you cant queue into orbonne and be stronger than ilvl 400

Being locked at a level doesn't seem to affect the gear stats however. The tower climb wouldn't be so trivial otherwise - poor Phlegethon can't even get off a second Ancient Flare these days because THAT's how much the gear stats have trivialized him. To say nothing of how Cloud of Darkness has entire mechanics that just aren't seen anymore for the same reason - remember the worms? I haven't seen them since mid-HW and these days she dies almost immediately after the alliance split. Poor Ozma barely even tickles these days. Almost every alliance raid eventually gets trivialized for this reason and the SB raids will be no different unless SE actually does something to change it.

[lolicon09]

It looks like this time, they specifically targeted stuff where if a few players mess up, everyone suffers. This exists in all content, though it feels kind of shitty when Party A has two people who mess up, Party B has two people who mess up, oh darn we all need to start over again because got double dosage of collective punishment. I notice in Shadowbringers, at least in normal content, they are moving more towards still having everyone to compensate for the mistakes of another, but the focus is shifted ever-so-slightly to the individual player. If someone breaks a containment unit on the first boss of The Twinning, everyone has to deal with the add, but only the player who actually broke it gets the vuln stack.

I think it's less about difficulty, but more so the bigger picture of social engineering in an MMORPG. I don't mind having to try again if people mess up, but when you hurl in droves of people wanting to get started on their relic weapons, you'll find a lot of people aggravated being stuck at the same boss for an hour in roulette content just because a small handful of players don't get it. The capacity for players to sabotage the success for others is in all content, from the first dungeon you participate in, and this is part of an MMO game, but the extent varies wildly, and I think it's good if they keep the proportions within tighter bounds. The fight soon to follow, with Ultima and the falling sword angel thingies is a better balance. Still punishing if people mess up, but it asks that fewer players understand what to do, as opposed to asking 75% of all players understand they need to distribute themselves on the pads to stop annihilation.

what's the point of having a 24 man raid, if only a few are required to actually use their brain? TG Cid fight IS awesome because almost everyone must do something

[Fynlar]

Old content gets easier later. Not going to lose sleep over it. Tired of still seeing groups struggle to get past this fight anyway.

[Esmoire]

what's the point of having a 24 man raid, if only a few are required to actually use their brain? TG Cid fight IS awesome because almost everyone must do something

That is a remarkably reductive and hyperbolic statement without deferring anything I had said.

[MsMisato]

oh they nerfed Orbonne? That was such a blast of 24 man. I love the thunder god fight. many of players sacrificed err died because of mistakes.

[Bravely_Default]

No surprise honestly, the only "hard" content this game is allowed to have nowadays is extreme, savage, and ultimate. if it doesn't fall in that, prepare for nerfs.