SE, please buff Dragoon ...

[Shurrikhan]

I think the only change they should make is to change Life-Surge to a flat damage bonus, instead of auto-critical, as this design decision limits the gear choices dragoon can take, which isn't an issue other jobs have.

Have you met Warrior? Machinist? Bard, once upon a time? Monk, until being compensated for with DM? It's a long-standing problem, even if not a significant one.

Just convert excess chance to additional effectiveness, e.g. a 120% chance of a +25% damage DHit --> 100% chance of a +30% damage DHit. There, now all current and future users of Auto-Crits and Auto-DHits can take whatever gear their want (in the case of DHit, as Crit gear already gave the guaranteed Crit more damage) and benefit fully from raid buffs (in the case of either).

[Jimmymagic]

Dragoon is fine. It needs no buffs whatsoever.

Agreed /10

[Renkei]

Have you met Warrior? Machinist? Bard, once upon a time? Monk, until being compensated for with DM? It's a long-standing problem, even if not a significant one.

Just convert excess chance to additional effectiveness, e.g. a 120% chance of a +25% damage DHit --> 100% chance of a +30% damage DHit. There, now all current and future users of Auto-Crits and Auto-DHits can take whatever gear their want (in the case of DHit, as Crit gear already gave the guaranteed Crit more damage) and benefit fully from raid buffs (in the case of either).

I've been playing since 2.0 so yes I am aware of this being an issue, some buffs are flat damage buffs and the flat damage buffs have the biggest potential over critical or direct hit buffs in terms of rdps because you have to meet the condition of the buff in order for it to attribute damage. Litany boosts Critical hit rating so it's more beneficial to use comps that prioritize critical, but there are comps that can prioritize DH which dragoon and some other jobs do not have the flexibility to participate in. But statically you trade an auto critical for its direct damage bonus actually lowering your critical rating because jobs like samurai can actually stack everything except critical and get away with it, same thing with other jobs that give direct damage bonus buffs, I think there should be a balance of what people prefer to use and optimal this expansion was suppose to balance all substats but didn't actually get anywhere close fixing the problem there is just more RNG then before.

Litany is +10% critical rating and has lots of RNG to get the maximum bonus out of it since it relies on everyone else Criting when it's cast while flat damage buffs are superior I've honestly wondered why they haven't removed dragonsight change litany to 20% and buff Lance charge to 20% or Keep litany 10% and buff charge to 30%

[Lucy_Pyre]

No. Dragoon is completely fine. Obligatory "L2P".

[Shurrikhan]

I've been playing since 2.0 so yes I am aware of this being an issue, some buffs are flat damage buffs and the flat damage buffs have the biggest potential over critical or direct hit buffs in terms of rdps because you have to meet the condition of the buff in order for it to attribute damage. Litany boosts Critical hit rating so it's more beneficial to use comps that prioritize critical, but there are comps that can prioritize DH which dragoon and some other jobs do not have the flexibility to participate in. But statically you trade an auto critical for its direct damage bonus actually lowering your critical rating because jobs like samurai can actually stack everything except critical and get away with it, same thing with other jobs that give direct damage bonus buffs, I think there should be a balance of what people prefer to use and optimal this expansion was suppose to balance all substats but didn't actually get anywhere close fixing the problem there is just more RNG then before.

Litany is +10% critical rating and has lots of RNG to get the maximum bonus out of it since it relies on everyone else Criting when it's cast while flat damage buffs are superior I've honestly wondered why they haven't removed dragonsight change litany to 20% and buff Lance charge to 20% or Keep litany 10% and buff charge to 30%

Just as with Warrior's Inner Release and MCH's Reassemble, removing auto-Crits from Dragoon only serves to increase their dependence on random chance in a skill that was crafted specifically to reduce that dependence. You may at present be an ultimatum between having skills that offer less RNG dependence and those same skills benefiting from all compositions, but it takes only the smallest of adjustments to fix it. It's like complaining that you can't get past someone in a narrowish hallway when you both refuse to so much as turn your bodies to fit past; a minute adjustment and the conflict is gone. So why not just make the adjustment rather than throwing our hands up in condemnation of anything that dares reduce RNG dependence via an auto-Crit or auto-DHit?

[Sathona]

I find DRG quite balanced at the moment, wouldnt even call them overtuned.
If i wanted anything to change would be dragon sight becoming a self-buff. Only that.
Otherwise dunno, i feel like they are the best they have ever been

[Ramura_Sono]

The only buff for Dragoon I can get behind is increasing the wheeling thrust/fang and claw, raiden thrust and any other sub 15 second timer it has to 15 seconds.

[Renkei]

a minute adjustment and the conflict is gone. So why not just make the adjustment rather than throwing our hands up in condemnation of anything that dares reduce RNG dependence via an auto-Crit or auto-DHit?

It is a tiny fix, but yes Warrior MCHs, and DRG's Auto Critical just Converts the next attack into what ever your critical damage bonus wasthese abilities existed prior to direct-hit existing, the only way to truly rid it of RNG is to make those abilities Auto-Crit/DH, or Give it a flat damage bonus, But it's also more complex then that, Warrior Benefits from skill-speed but lacks a dot for some strange reason, Dragoon its a detriment to have skill-speed except at very certain integers that round with jumps animation lock.

Yes jobs are free and open to adjust gear in order to adjust to compositions but DRG doesn't benefit from Skill-speed the same way, Currently with the way that the gear is designed they don't offer enough freedom of choice or sub-stats to warrant all types of play styles and preferences, every one of these jobs will be stacking Critical, Warrior ignores as much tenacity as it can but needs around 1500 SKS, They honestly are mostly plagued with the same issue, But My biggest issue with DRG is the fact it doesn't share any left side gear pieces with any classes, neither does NIN, while jobs like Samurai allow you to play MNK, and MCH allows you to play DNC, and BRD. All the jobs that share gear with others are the ones dominating currently, Warriors require a Re-meld in order to be optimal with another job.

I have long adjusted to it but the game designers haven't. some of these jobs to line up properly with the rest of jobs in a meaningful way, Most of the changes are removals of abilities that they felt were "bloat" while they decided to keep clunkier abilities, i think with the current design direction it is clear that they have less time to spend on this game and balance it then ever before They have mentioned in the past that jobs with raise shouldn't be outputting more damage then any other job, but now we have the current state of summoner, they gave it a tiny Nerf because its their intention to keep it actually over powered and the state of them saying they wouldn't release the balance adjustment notes until the patch to later find out there was hardly any balance adjustments.


for Empirical evidence let me post a skill Ceiling list that shows the min and max damage differences across all percentiles.


SMN 15,613.84 -18,277.44 = -2,663.6‬ N=25,678
SAM 15,493.26 -18,238.72 = -2,745.46‬ N=22,991
BLM 15,533.46 -18,232.88 = -2699.42 N=13,234
MNK 15,198.62 -17,758.58 = -2,559.96‬ N=12,881
DRG 15,054.07 -17,588.03 = -2,533.96‬ N=27,996
NIN 15,157.65 -17,527.45 = -2,369.8‬ N=17,170
RDM 15,027.03 -17,464.81 = -2,437.78‬ N=14,067
MCH 14,875.23 -16,622.81 = -1,747.58‬ N=17,821
DNC 14,237.44 -16,573.73 = -2,336.29‬ N=16,270
BRD 14,303.41 -16,188.50 = -1,885.09‬ N=15,770

[KaitoAsaha]

I'm also happy with where DRG is this expansion. If I could ask for a change then it would be tor them to add a refresh for Disembowel, like how Monk and Warrior have one for their buff, to one of our aoe moves, or add it as a bonus for for properly doing the combo.

[SpeckledBurd]

Dragoon doesn't need buffs, it's still one of the strongest melee even if it doesn't have an absolute stranglehold on the meta like it has for the last 2 expansions and as far as design goes its brillliant.

The only buff for Dragoon I can get behind is increasing the wheeling thrust/fang and claw, raiden thrust and any other sub 15 second timer it has to 15 seconds.

It's kinda odd that they didn't make this change when they extended all other combos to 15 seconds, and its even odder that they didn't extend them when they fixed Forms on Monk.

I'm also happy with where DRG is this expansion. If I could ask for a change then it would be tor them to add a refresh for Disembowel, like how Monk and Warrior have one for their buff, to one of our aoe moves, or add it as a bonus for for properly doing the combo.

The only reason I don't think they need to do this is just that Dragoon's AOE is already pretty much the best of the melee.