Why don't people like to pick/use Tenacity over Determination?

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Lengthy answer ahead. If the first two posts didn't feel like enough, this one will.
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Short Answer: It is an "OK" stat, but it is not the prefered option since other provide larger benefits of damage.

Long Answer:
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All jobs in this game have a preferred stat order, in the case of tanks it is:
PLD / DRK / GNB: Skillspeed to desired GCD > Crit > Direct Hit > Determination > Tenacity
WAR only: Skillspeed to desired GCD > Crit > Determination > Tenacity > Direct Hit (majority of its' damage contribution forces DH)

The reason for the stat order is simply the gain in damage you get, with having a perfect aligning rotation being the highest, Crit being 2nd highest, etc. This does not mean Tenacity is a bad stat for damage, just not the best one (and we have 5 stats to pick). It is best explained if we look at how much of a stat we need to pour in to get the result.

Statistic intervals creditted to Nemekh & the TheoryJerks, bless their honest work.


Based on those tables, we see we need 254 DET to gain +1% damage while we need 330 TEN to gain that 1% damage + reduction. So if the desire is mainly to increase damage, it makes sense why TEN is hardly favoured over other stats. But now to what makes Tenacity its own thing - its' built-in passive mitigation.

First of, as different damage buffs and stats work multiplicative (i.e. (20% + 20% = 44%, not 40%), so does mitigation. But the catch with mitigation unlike damage is that instead of getting greater results by stacking multiple damage multipliers, mitigation is victim to diminishing returns. The more %-based mitigation you use, the less effect the next one has when used. To give you a basic example with Warrior's cooldowns:

Rampart / Raw Int alone: 100% - 20% = 80%; you take 20% from the 100% original.
Rampart + Raw Int paired: 100% - 20% - 20% = 64%; the first 20% is as above, but the second mitigation takes from the remaining 80% instead (thus 16%)
So using Raw Int with Rampart diminished the total mitigation by 4%. This is still commonly used on tankbusters though, so don't think too hard about it.

The issue with TEN largely comes from us tanks having a large pool of mitigation options at our disposal to deal with basically every mechanic in the game. That on top of diminishing returns should make things clear.


However, to give you a second / third opinion by some of the fellas from theory discords such as Theoryjerks and TheBalance:

Mox Xinmagar 04/08/2019

Does Tenacity suck??

Tenacity is an efficient stat for what it is, both increasing damage and mitigation at a nominal rate. Tenacity is currently regarded as a progression stat, in a similar vein to Vitality melds of old - helpful on occasion and can save your life, but not enough to warrant continuous, future use. The gain of Tenacity is not in reducing healer load. The gain is in the “insurance policy.” Tenacity could be useful. It could save your life. But you won’t see tangible benefit from Tenacity until that moment where you almost die.

-Theoryjerks Discord / Emiin

What does Tenacity do for us??

Tenacity allows the whole party to make some mistakes.
Missed a Feint or Addle? Shields? Cooldown dropped a second too early?
Tenacity's got it.

Words of closure - having Tenacity on gear is not "bad", just not preferred. However, it is likely going to happen that your best-in-slot piece might end up having Crit + Tenacity on it. Due to Crit generally being the most sought-after stat, that extra Tenacity will generally be ok to have on your gear. Ok on gear, avoid to meld.

Hope this helps.