Is it official? Are we tempered? (5.2 spoilers / speculation)

[Lersayil]

Its also still possible that we are tempered, its just that Hydaelyn stands for the value of freedom and thinking for yourself... which in effect would mean that we are acting of our free will, while having the beneficial effects of being un-temperable by others.

[thegreatonemal]

Being tempered doesn't take away your free will per say. Just makes you want to do your god's will.

[Alleo]

Its also still possible that we are tempered, its just that Hydaelyn stands for the value of freedom and thinking for yourself... which in effect would mean that we are acting of our free will, while having the beneficial effects of being un-temperable by others.

Of course that could happen but honestly I would find it to be a bad solution. Tempering for the whole game had been something scary and horrible. Seeing the effect it had on people, transforming them into the slaves of the primal, doing everything they can for him.

Saying that Hydaelyn does temper but that her tempering is giving us some other kind of free will just feels too easy and kinda pointless in my eyes. Either go full out and make her temper us with all the consequences it normally has. Or simply show that there can be primals that dont temper thus showing that it was all the work of the Ascians.

There are a few people that say that we are tempered and that also want us to kill her. And I honestly wonder how that would ever be possible because that goes against any cases of tempered people.

[QT_Melon]

Of course that could happen but honestly I would find it to be a bad solution. Tempering for the whole game had been something scary and horrible. Seeing the effect it had on people, transforming them into the slaves of the primal, doing everything they can for him.

That actually may be the answer for why she sunders then erases people's memories.

As it stands the Ascians that are sundered don't remember being tempered if I remember correctly

That said, if Echo helps us be resistant to it, perhaps a better tolerance afterwards since, in our case we have more of our Ancient soul. Where someone who has less of their ancient self hear the call has less resistance as an Ancient? I mean why are those awakened to the echo more resistant to other primals?

There are a few people that say that we are tempered and that also want us to kill her. And I honestly wonder how that would ever be possible because that goes against any cases of tempered people.

I find the former bad reasoning - so what if people want to kill her cuz she's a primal in that sense. People want to kill Alphinaud or other characters for whatever reasoning.

The latter however
This is a more interesting question, though I would say there's something to be said to the personality and will of the primal.

It also may set up for de-powering arc of our Ancient self, could possibly be a nice reset development wise as well so we don't have over inflated ilevels and crazy HP.

[MrThinker]

It also may set up for de-powering arc of our Ancient self, could possibly be a nice reset development wise as well so we don't have over inflated ilevels and crazy HP.

That reminds me, we have that stat-squish scheduled for 6.0 don't we.

[Lersayil]

...Tempering for the whole game had been something scary and horrible. Seeing the effect it had on people, transforming them into the slaves of the primal, doing everything they can for him.
...

I mean, it would be still a pretty harrowing revelation. It would just mean that there are different shades to the process, most primals using - either by design, or of their own will (Ramuh kinda contradicts this though) - the most extreme version, fully overwriting the will of the recipient.

They could also play around with the definition of free will. Are we truly free, if we are forced to be free by Hydaelyn?

It might also open up the door to tempering being reversible... which is a pretty horrific thought, given how many we've killed by default.

[LineageRazor]

It might also open up the door to tempering being reversible... which is a pretty horrific thought, given how many we've killed by default.

Not that horrific; it's the sort of thing that's happened time again throughout history. A disease is cured, but that does no good for the folks that died even minutes before the cure was found.

Right now, the Tempered are slain because even when locked up, their prayers strengthen the Primal they are tempered to (just like the imprisoned dragons on Dalamud supported and powered Bahamut). They are incurable by any known methods, so cannot be rehabilitated. Execution, while a sad and regrettable thing, is absolutely necessary.

Discovering a cure doesn't really diminish that necessity (unless, perhaps, the cure is something stupidly obvious that folks reasonably should have tried). "This was how we had to deal with Tempering in the past, but thankfully, those days are now behind us."

Probably more tragic is the fact that we might need to kill more Tempered even AFTER a cure is found, out of simple self-defense. If a Tempered is trying their best to stab us to death, subduing them non-lethally simply may not be an option. The same justification we use to kill Garlean conscripts - they may be in a bad place, but self-preservation comes first.

[QT_Melon]

So, what happened to the heretics of Shiva - since they were also involved with the summoning, though Iceheart was the "core" or vessel.

I know this may seem like a separate question, but it's related to the discussion about the behaviors of those tempered.

[Alleo]

It also may set up for de-powering arc of our Ancient self, could possibly be a nice reset development wise as well so we don't have over inflated ilevels and crazy HP.

If we even get huge powers from the blessing. When Middy took away the blessing we seemingly still beat up everything that was in our way. And we only got stronger since then. We are powerful but other people are also powerful even without any blessing (or even the echo) so I would find it strange if that is suddenly the reason for most of our strenght.

It might also open up the door to tempering being reversible... which is a pretty horrific thought, given how many we've killed by default.

Is it really that horrific? Of course in hindsight (if there was a cure) we might have just saved all of them but thats the thing about hindsight. Its something we only know when it happens and then cant be used to change the past. Its like after war when you are able to fully oversee the whole battles and say: Well that leader did a horrible mistake here and could have saved their people if they just did x. While its different in the situation itself, where actions are done fast and not everything is known.

These tempered are a huge danger. They will always try to further the goal of their primal. Unlike other prisoners they wont feel regret and will do anything to get free. This is a huge risk. Keeping them around will just endanger even more people for a solution that might never come.

[Lersayil]

snip.

snip.

A neccessity? Absolutely. Hindsight? Yep. Would it still wreck most well adjusted peoples minds with guilt? Most likely.

The difference in the examples you provided, is that here, we are actively killing people who may or may not have become tempered willingly. Compartmentalization and raitonalization is nice and all, but even trained people have issues dealing with psychological issues akin to this.

It would probably weigh on the Scions mind for a spell, if not the players themselves.