It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Kohl]

There are a lot of sticky things to consider when looking at a request for this kind of "option" from the corporate/business angle. One of them is ethics. I know that sounds like it is taking a video game "too seriously" but I am talking for the time being about the business angle of a product (which I assure you, SE takes their product seriously). It is a sticky, possibly ethically questionable, place for a company to put itself to adopt a function that could be seen as endorsing bigotry. Now, before you get all up in arms that I am calling anyone here a bigot for wanting an option, keep reading, because I am most specifically not. What I am pointing out that the code of ethics of many firms/company usually worded against unethical behavior or even behavior that has the appearance of being unethical; it isn't shady but it looks shady, so it is a violation. (/business stuff)

Argument points of saying it is for immersion: not having an option to filter glamours (mind you, the requested option was for a discrete filter: a filter that can be applied per player) is immersive. Again, NOT having the option is more immersive. It is the game as the developers present it is how you maintain immersion. The counter argument to this is that NOT having glamours is also more immersive. But that is almost a separate conversation/argument.

Argument points of saying there are "no reason to not have the option" are false, reasons have been stated and restated, not accepting an argument because it does not agree with your values does not make it invalid. By that token, it could be argued that there is no good reason to implement a filter option. However, I accept that it is genuinely distressing to see some glamours, it's a personally valid argument because it is factual. I do not think it outweighs the cons of implementing the option. The option to "blur" other players? Ok, no, time to play a single player game...

There are NPCs that wear costumes. The tall Fuath in Il Mheg. Adkiragh in Idyllshire. The Lalafell as a race itself are "silly" and cute even compared to Gnomes/Halflings of other games/fantasy franchises. Moogles, don't get me started!!! The silly parts of the Final Fantasy franchise is part of it. If you don't like the silliness than you are playing the wrong game. And I am saying this as a person that doesn't like the costumes (be it moogle, swine, frog, whatever... I dislike them). But I like FF, and that means growing to like the silly. There are glamours I get tired of seeing, but, it's not impacting my game play. If a game isn't supposed to be taken so seriously, why are things like this bothering people so much they want to block it? It's a game, stop taking that Hrothgar in a wedding dress so seriously.

I do use the filter to mute the battle effects for people not in my party. It is purely for the performance of my PC that could use an upgrade. I have suffered to watch many a hunt train kill a mark that wouldn't load on my screen until right before it de-spawned.

I'm all for options (get rid of gender-locks on races AND gear, everything dyeable, viera and hrothgar hair, more variation and options in character creation, the ability to have more options on your character proportions for male and female, some decent beards and facial hair options, some damned eyebrows for highlanders, more variation in character height, an option to include a few options from other races for that "half-elf" life, the ability to glamour DPS armor onto my Tank, or Healer for that battle cleric look, optional secondary arms: like a staff for MNK... etc). There are so many other, game enriching, options that should be a priority for demand than a filter that could put SE in hot water. There is no end of people who love to talk about how modern media is rotting everyone's brains... someone is going to make an issue of it.

[Ivellior]

There are a lot of sticky things to consider when looking at a request for this kind of "option" from the corporate/business angle. One of them is ethics. I know that sounds like it is taking a video game "too seriously" but I am talking for the time being about the business angle of a product (which I assure you, SE takes their product seriously). It is a sticky, possibly ethically questionable, place for a company to put itself to adopt a function that could be seen as endorsing bigotry. Now, before you get all up in arms that I am calling anyone here a bigot for wanting an option, keep reading, because I am most specifically not. What I am pointing out that the code of ethics of many firms/company usually worded against unethical behavior or even behavior that has the appearance of being unethical; it isn't shady but it looks shady, so it is a violation. (/business stuff)

First of all this feature farfetched from being seen that it endorses bigotry. It isn't shady and it doesn't look shady. People claim its shady because it fits their purpose. You practically need to be an olympic champion in mental gymanstics to claim that this feature endorses bigotry. However you still mention this...

Secondly using that very same logic: Since children also play the game, allowing them to see men in dresses is even more 10 times more questionable than a feature that might potientially be seen as endorsing bigotry. Yet I don't see noone claiming that in the gender lock threads.

Argument points of saying it is for immersion: not having an option to filter glamours (mind you, the requested option was for a discrete filter: a filter that can be applied per player) is immersive. Again, NOT having the option is more immersive. It is the game as the developers present it is how you maintain immersion. The counter argument to this is that NOT having glamours is also more immersive. But that is almost a separate conversation/argument.

That is factually incorrect. The OP doesn't say he wants this per character. He asks for an option to turn off glamours because it's breaking his immersion. You might find it immersive to see someone in toad/chocobo suit killing the ultima weapon, but a lot of people don't. Also that doesn't stop you from wearing these cloathes normally and running around in a town in a chocobo/toad suit. You just can't do it inside a dungeon/raid where you are fighting with your life against a powerful enemy.

Argument points of saying there are "no reason to not have the option" are false, reasons have been stated and restated, not accepting an argument because it does not agree with your values does not make it invalid. By that token, it could be argued that there is no good reason to implement a filter option. However, I accept that it is genuinely distressing to see some glamours, it's a personally valid argument because it is factual. I do not think it outweighs the cons of implementing the option. The option to "blur" other players? Ok, no, time to play a single player game...

I haven't seen anyone providing a legitime reason besides it takes dev time/resources that can be viewed as con. It's literally people saying: No it's bigot or No notice me (see the above gif post). And spending dev time and resources on removing gender locking is ok but this isn't?

There are NPCs that wear costumes. The tall Fuath in Il Mheg. Adkiragh in Idyllshire. The Lalafell as a race itself are "silly" and cute even compared to Gnomes/Halflings of other games/fantasy franchises. Moogles, don't get me started!!! The silly parts of the Final Fantasy franchise is part of it. If you don't like the silliness than you are playing the wrong game. And I am saying this as a person that doesn't like the costumes (be it moogle, swine, frog, whatever... I dislike them). But I like FF, and that means growing to like the silly. There are glamours I get tired of seeing, but, it's not impacting my game play. If a game isn't supposed to be taken so seriously, why are things like this bothering people so much they want to block it? It's a game, stop taking that Hrothgar in a wedding dress so seriously.

It doesn't bother you, that's great. But it does bother other people for various reason. I especially hate colored metallic dyes. I can't complain about people using them (it's their right) but I also expect people not to complain when I ask a for feature that can optionally removing

I do use the filter to mute the battle effects for people not in my party. It is purely for the performance of my PC that could use an upgrade. I have suffered to watch many a hunt train kill a mark that wouldn't load on my screen until right before it de-spawned.

It's a good feature and a lot of people also use it because it's too straining on the eyes. It's a nice option that people who want to use it, use it and people who don't want to use it don't use it. I don't see why this feature can't be like battle effects filter.

I'm all for options (get rid of gender-locks on races AND gear, everything dyeable, viera and hrothgar hair, more variation and options in character creation, the ability to have more options on your character proportions for male and female, some decent beards and facial hair options, some damned eyebrows for highlanders, more variation in character height, an option to include a few options from other races for that "half-elf" life, the ability to glamour DPS armor onto my Tank, or Healer for that battle cleric look, optional secondary arms: like a staff for MNK... etc). There are so many other, game enriching, options that should be a priority for demand than a filter that could put SE in hot water. There is no end of people who love to talk about how modern media is rotting everyone's brains... someone is going to make an issue of it.

Why would it get them to hot water? People make issues about everything. Do you think is hard for people to start complaing that men wearing wedding dreses is distressing for children and cause trouble? How about a scene where someone looses an arm? Isn't that extreme violence. Can't people make an issue of the game having extreme violence?

I can understand people saying: I prefer to get X or Y first because I want it more than hiding glamour. It's valid request. But the arguments against this feature on this thread are either "You're a bigot" (some say it straight out, some are more diplomatic about it -like saying it could be seen as endorsing bigotry) or no "because it till hurt feelings or self expression". Both of them are literally reasons that don't stand up to logic and scrutiny.

[Fayt1203]

Why would it get them to hot water? People make issues about everything. Do you think is hard for people to start complaing that men wearing wedding dreses is distressing for children and cause trouble?

.

if children are playing this game then that's on the parent not on the game i would think. this game is not rated for teens for nothing so this is not good example

[Kohl]

...snip...

Several comments throughout this thread have been more in favor of a discrete option to discriminate glamours rather than one that simply deactivated the glamour feature client side. That is what I was addressing, and the OP is a heavy user of the glamour system, so it is not unreasonable to read that it is implicit in the OP's remarks that they mean to have the ability to individually censor glamours.

There isn't a reason to implement this filter that stands up to logic and scrutiny. No one can tell me why they want it other than because they are offended; which is just a feeling.

Implementing such a feature is contrary to the direction developers want to go, as is implicit in by Yoshi's remarks while talking about removal if gender restrictions on gear, quoted here:

"... I was heading to the office on a Saturday and I saw a situation that made me very sad. I was trying to go into the office and I was waiting at a red light. I saw a high schooler coming from the other side of the road in their school uniform. It seemed that they were biologically male at birth but they were wearing a sailor fuku, which is traditionally female attire. In Japanese high schools, there’s more and more schools that are accommodating for freedom of not being restricted to a specific gender for your uniform...That person probably wanted to present the gender they identified with in their heart...On the other side of the road was a mother and a daughter. The daughter was perhaps 5 years old. As soon as the mother saw the high schooler, she shielded her daughter as if she didn’t want her daughter to see. The high schooler must have been very hurt. Situations like these still happen and there’s areas where there’s not as much understanding.

We need to see more change in the values people have, and we need to consider for Final Fantasy XIV how we push forward in-game and how we represent it."
-Naoki Yoshida (interviewed by Heather Alexandra)

Some of these arguments are like those Magic Eye posters from the 90's... hard to see at first, but once they are in focus you can't unsee them.

[Ivellior]

Several comments throughout this thread have been more in favor of a discrete option to discriminate glamours rather than one that simply deactivated the glamour feature client side. That is what I was addressing, and the OP is a heavy user of the glamour system, so it is not unreasonable to read that it is implicit in the OP's remarks that they mean to have the ability to individually censor glamours.

Only a tiny minority of the posters asked for a person-specific glamour blacklist feature. The feature request is for a toggle to turn off all glamours. That is specifically what the OP asked, which is a perfectly reasonable request. Changing the OP (and the features request) because of a tiny minority of posters is disingenuous.

There isn't a reason to implement this filter that stands up to logic and scrutiny. No one can tell me why they want it other than because they are offended; which is just a feeling.

If you are talking about a character-specific glamour blacklist, this argument makes sense, but it's not necessarily true. I really annoys me to see people in metalic dyed frog suits when doing instanced content. I find it grating and distracting enough to want to turn off all glamours. If that means I'm offended I'll just take it as such.

And even if they do add a character-specific glamour blacklist feature (which, again, is not what the people are asking), I still personally believe that you overly sensitive on the matter. It's just a tool/feature to make the player's experience better just like the black list feature. I can totally understand how annoying someone would feel be when he reached the fight with hades (at the epic climax of the story) and is greeted by a tank wearing a metallic yellow frog suit.

If you feel that a tool is bad because it might be potientially used for an "evil" reason, then you might as well eat with your hands since knives can be used to kill people.

Implementing such a feature is contrary to the direction developers want to go, as is implicit in by Yoshi's remarks while talking about removal if gender restrictions on gear, quoted here:

"... I was heading to the office on a Saturday and I saw a situation that made me very sad. I was trying to go into the office and I was waiting at a red light. I saw a high schooler coming from the other side of the road in their school uniform. It seemed that they were biologically male at birth but they were wearing a sailor fuku, which is traditionally female attire. In Japanese high schools, there’s more and more schools that are accommodating for freedom of not being restricted to a specific gender for your uniform...That person probably wanted to present the gender they identified with in their heart...On the other side of the road was a mother and a daughter. The daughter was perhaps 5 years old. As soon as the mother saw the high schooler, she shielded her daughter as if she didn’t want her daughter to see. The high schooler must have been very hurt. Situations like these still happen and there’s areas where there’s not as much understanding.

We need to see more change in the values people have, and we need to consider for Final Fantasy XIV how we push forward in-game and how we represent it."
-Naoki Yoshida (interviewed by Heather Alexandra)

1. Heather Alexandra is from kokatu, a site that is widely known for lying and changing stories/interviews to match their political bias. Please provide the original japanese interview text.
2. If that was the dev vision those items wouldn't have been gender locked in the first place.