SE thanks for making this event not gender locked

[reivaxe]

Last year's flower crowns were essentially gender-locked. The base designs are different, and the male version is fully dyeable while half the flowers on the female version are permanently bright pink.

I feel like that's enough precedent to anticipate that when this year announced two prizes available instead of one, and there is a "masculine" and "feminine" item, that they might be forced counterparts instead of free-for-all.

This is nonsense.
1- This game's devs have given yall zero reason to think that flowers are too "feminine" for men in their eyes.
2- It is completely common place to change models some to suit different genders. The flower crown is a flower crown regardless of the differences. It's not like they turned it into a crown of thorns for men O_o
3- The reward from this event is no different than last year were males get different model that suits them more.

(Unless you think I can't count that dudes get 3 flowers compared to the female 5 ... or tell that these flowers are fairly different flowers ...).

So again, I have no clue why people are fake praising them only to set themselves up to be butt blasted mad again about another gender locking when the devs decide to make something cute for women and give dude something that doesn't leave most dudes feeling left out or with something that would look like crossplay.

Also the Makai Marksman monocle opposite the also-gender-locked butterfly hairpin.

And the Sun Guide counterpart to the flower circlet is a headband, not a monocle, but is still gender-locked headgear.

So more Garo TV show gender locked sets as examples (which I assume are linked to characters in the show that match those genders)?
It's almost like they made much of that collaboration event's gear gender locked for a reason.

[Doozer]

This is nonsense.

Why are you like.... so mad. People are saying "hey thanks for letting us wear both of these in identical ways regardless of character gender" and you're getting all ruffled about how there's no reason to thank SE for that? I hope you don't see everything this negatively.

[Theodric]

Why are you like.... so mad. People are saying "hey thanks for letting us wear both of these in identical ways regardless of character gender" and you're getting all ruffled about how there's no reason to thank SE for that? I hope you don't see everything this negatively.

Why are you assuming that the poster you quoted is mad? They're expressing an opinion in a perfectly reasonable manner. Not everything has to be some deep slight.

[reivaxe]

Why are you like.... so mad. People are saying "hey thanks for letting us wear both of these in identical ways regardless of character gender" and you're getting all ruffled about how there's no reason to thank SE for that? I hope you don't see everything this negatively.

... How could you possible think I'm "so mad" for pointing out how silly this is?

1 year ago we got a flower crown for this event. It's the same for both genders, dudes get some extra blue flowers that wont dye and more of their base flowers dye. This is apparently "essentially gender-locked" to this person.
This year women get a hair pin with 5 flowers themed after the event where as dudes get a hair pin with ...3 flowers and said flowers are completely different compared to the female version. Is this not "essentially gender-locked"? To me I'd consider neither gender locked as I pointed out before but apparently only 1 is to these people.

Given that males can wear every crafted flower hair pin (and we just got Hyacinth Corsage to remind people that crafted flower pins are a thing) and there's no thematic connection between flowers and monocles ... why wouldn't both genders get both? How poorly do you think of the devs to think that a mirrored flower pin would be female only?

Feel like gender lock outrage has become a new meme after the Valentines Day. Ignoring that this event is legit how they have done things for the longest time in order to fake praise for unfounded-n-silly fear in a flower pin/ monocle being gendered is ever so strange.

[Penthea]

1 year ago we got a flower crown for this event. It's the same for both genders, dudes get some extra blue flowers that wont dye and more of their base flowers dye. This is apparently "essentially gender-locked" to this person.

Well it is...male and female characters got different rewards. That's literally the definition of gender locking.

I like how you say it's the same flower crown for both genders and then proceed to point out how the male version is different.

[reivaxe]

Well it is...male and female characters got different rewards. That's literally the definition of gender locking.

I like how you say it's the same flower crown for both genders and then proceed to point out how the male version is different.

No, they didn't get "different rewards". They both get a flower crown. It looks slightly different on men, but it's the same thing, a flower crown.
Much like how with this event the under shirts are different though everything about the concept is the same. Or like how the Dalmascan Draped Top looks different on men and women. It's cause the devs actually think about making changes to a design that suit an aesthetic.

You're in a thread praising the devs for not gender locking this item ... that looks different on both genders

Again I quote myself.

(Unless you think I can't count that dudes get 3 flowers compared to the female 5 ... or tell that these flowers are fairly different flowers ...).

So this is gender locked to you?

[Reinha]

(Unless you think I can't count that dudes get 3 flowers compared to the female 5 ... or tell that these flowers are fairly different flowers ...).

Well this event did it right because players like the female version, duh. Same with Moonfire Happis and Songbird Attire. It's never been about gender locking, just envy.

[reivaxe]

To a degree, yes.

No, it's literally just making design changes to make something look more appealing/ nature for a gender.
Like how they recently talked about how they make changes to helms to make them more suited for which ever race you're playing (They used the Edencall Helm of Fending as a example, showing just how much it changes if you're playing a human vs a lala/ elezen or kitty)

The devs actually take gender aesthetics into consideration when making things work for them.

(I haven't seen the male version of it yet, besides what could be seen on the icon picture, but the flowers didn't look that different.)

Dudes get completely different flowers and 2 whole less flowers. The dude flowers have narrow petals that show off more of the hair behind the flowers as well as the branch like pin part.
And ya know what? It looks better on them than the default version would without any changes ... which is why they do this kinda stuff.

Well this event did it right because players like the female version, duh. Same with Moonfire Happis and Songbird Attire. It's never been about gender locking, just envy.

Pretty much what I've been trying to get at. Like the flower crown ...
"Dudes get some extra prema blue flowers on their flower crown and are able to change the color of the pink flowers unlike the female version to make it look more traditionally male looking? WHHHHY?!?!".
Yet having almost the same thing happen here but liking the female version means it is alllll gooooood lol, these forums are a trip.

[Iscah]

This year women get a hair pin with 5 flowers themed after the event where as dudes get a hair pin with ...3 flowers and said flowers are completely different compared to the female version. Is this not "essentially gender-locked"? To me I'd consider neither gender locked as I pointed out before but apparently only 1 is to these people.

To a degree, yes. The exact designs can only be worn by the gender of your character. (I haven't seen the male version of it yet, besides what could be seen on the icon picture, but the flowers didn't look that different.)

The flower crown is a more notable difference in design, because it affects how you can use the item and how it can be coordinated into a glamour.

For example, I made this outfit for my male Elezen using the flower crown.

It works because the dyed flowers tone in with the reds and browns of the clothing.

A female character cannot use the same flower crown in an equivalent outfit because the flowers are permanently pink.

Likewise, an outfit that relied on a contrast between pink and blue flowers could only be worn by a female character because that effect cannot be achieved with the male crown.

The fully-dyeable crown is locked to male characters. The contrasting-colour crown is locked to female characters.

But for the corsages, assuming they dye the same (I haven't yet checked), the difference between three flowers and five flowers is unlikely to have the same impact on the overall look of an outfit.

[Iscah]

No, it's literally just making design changes to make something look more appealing/ nature for a gender.

And those design changes can drastically - and in the case of the crowns, arbitrarily - change how the item can be used.

I agree there is a very long history of things being designed as "gender-tailored" counterparts, but there is no consistency between the degree of difference and whether they are presented as two gender-locked items or one unisex item that changes appearance.

e.g. the Moonfire Vest and Moonfire Halter are the exact same shirt with the necessary addition of a bikini top for the female version, but the single-item Endless Summer Top is entirely different based on character gender.

There's nothing wrong with making counterparts where each design suits the gender and is modelled to fit them, because the male and female body pieces do need to be modelled separately regardless. (Though I don't like the approach they often take of making the female version of clothes more revealing - but that's a separate argument.)

But hats fit everyone and there's nothing really specific about those crowns. They could have been made into two separate items - say, "Flower Crown" and "Daisy Crown" - and make both available to everyone. They wouldn't need any extra modelling work and, as you say, flower hairpins are usually unisex without any modification.

Having had a better look at both versions of the peach corsage, the choice of different flowers is a bit strange but, as I wrote previously, the degree of difference is not the same. Both versions are pink and have the same overall shape. You dye it blue, and both versions turn blue.

You might not see a difference, but clearly a number of other people do.



Also, re. something you said yesterday...

1- This game's devs have given yall zero reason to think that flowers are too "feminine" for men in their eyes.

I would say the quest itself gives us reason to think that the rewards would be gendered. Look at how they're given out in the quest: peach corsages for the three girls (nothing for Hyuran Boy) and the monocle for Damielliot.

There's also the names of the items themselves: princess's corsage and seneschal's monocle - particularly as "seneschal" has previously been used for the male-exclusive counterpart to the Songbird dress.



To be clear: yes, I agree the corsages are noticeably different between the genders - but unlike the crowns, I don't think the difference has a significant impact on the overall look of the item. Especially if you're not looking up close but just seeing from a distance that they have a coloured flower pin that matches their outfit.