Hard limit on flipping house plots

[Tohe-Spidhire]

Housing is intended in part as a gil sink. Owners do not need to recoup the purchase price if they are no longer going to be using it. They need to weigh the risk before they buy instead.

It's not like it's hard to make gil. If someone buys a house then later loses it when they stop playing, they can always earn the gil to buy another when they return to the game if they don't already have enough. There are plenty of gil sources and nothing major to spend it on other than buying a house.

Any official resell mechanism will increase house flipping. As Harmonea pointed out, there wouldn't be anything to prevent players from continuing to transfer additional profits through other means.

The only thing locking you to the game is you. You're the one letting ownership of virtual property bought with virtual currency in a game control your life choices. If you don't want to be playing then don't. If you lose a house you bought, so what? You can always buy another when you decide to you want to play again.

Please don't hand wave the ease of earning gil, when we all know that it involves a time investment (not to mention the subscription required). I suppose that a house flipper would consider gil "easy" to earn.

Housing is NOT working as a gil sink when gil is simply exchanging hands outside the game, without a tax in place. Utter rubbish. The system exists because SE (probably) intentionally created the current system with artificial scarcity in mind, as described. When the upcoming new housing comes out, it will just be more of the same; a subscriber-sink.

Let's be clear that YOU might be willing to simply walk away from the game, and MYSELF can walk away from the game, both despite the artificial housing scarcity, but the system has the appearance of being a cheap ploy to keep subscribers tied to the game, rather than "lose" their virtual stuff (and the time used to accumulate and arrange that stuff).

[Harmonea]

I suppose that a house flipper would consider gil "easy" to earn.

You will literally never convince anyone of your point of view by taking a well-known forum member and insisting you're only being disagreed with because said forum member must have a habit of unsavory behavior. This is how you find yourself on ignore lists and your suggestions categorically discarded simply because of their source. Consider editing these insinuations out of your post if you actually want to discuss your suggestion and get your thread in front of the devs' eyes.

[Tohe-Spidhire]

You will literally never convince anyone of your point of view by taking a well-known forum member and insisting you're only being disagreed with because said forum member must have a habit of unsavory behavior. This is how you find yourself on ignore lists and your suggestions categorically discarded simply because of their source. Consider editing these insinuations out of your post if you actually want to discuss your suggestion and get your thread in front of the devs' eyes.

Um, I didn't say they were a house flipper. If that's what you read from what I said, then you need to think about your biases.

Unfortunately, I'm not seeing constructive feedback, just some reactionary nonsense that is the eqiuvalent of, "Noooo, we can't possibly improve the system because of...mumble, mumble..."

[Jojoya]

Yep, that is fairly obvious. However, you need to think in terms that the black market largely exists because there HASN'T been an in-game system.

The "black market" exists because the supply doesn't meet the demand. An in-game system isn't going to change anything when players would still be able to dictate what price they're going to sell at regardless of any regulated system.

The scarcity doesn't even exist outside of the NA data centers. There are a few EU worlds with available housing. Almost every JP world has an abundance of housing to choose from. If SE was truly trying to try players to the game through house ownership, wouldn't that scarcity exists on all worlds instead of just worlds in a certain region?

Please don't hand wave the ease of earning gil, when we all know that it involves a time investment (not to mention the subscription required). I suppose that a house flipper would consider gil "easy" to earn.

It's easy for anyone to earn gil by simply playing the game. The trick is to make uses of the gil sources available and then spend it wisely, which a lot of players don't do.

No, I don't flip houses. I'm very much against it. I'm one of the ones who's been vocal about the need for an improved instanced housing system so every player who want a house can have one and not worry about a lack of houses or having to lose it to demolition.

But we don't have it so players need to learn to work within the limitations of the system that is in place. If you don't want to feel tied to a game by a house that will be lost if you stop playing for more than 6 weeks, don't buy the house. It's a simple and smart decision.

It is ultimately on you for deciding to tie yourself financially to a game for the sake of virtual property bought by virtual currency.

[Tohe-Spidhire]

The "black market" exists because the supply doesn't meet the demand. An in-game system isn't going to change anything when players would still be able to dictate what price they're going to sell at regardless of any regulated system.

The scarcity doesn't even exist outside of the NA data centers. There are a few EU worlds with available housing. Almost every JP world has an abundance of housing to choose from. If SE was truly trying to try players to the game through house ownership, wouldn't that scarcity exists on all worlds instead of just worlds in a certain region?

As I've already described, an in-game system would make it easy to identify house flippers.

That's an interesting observation about JP housing. However, is that hearsay, or are there stats? As for why, it could be something like a smaller proportion of JP to EU and NA players, or a cultural JP difference. Or maybe SE is concerned about self-image in JP and is afraid of being perceived of exploiting JP players?

I come from lotro, where they developed a system where they could spawn extra wards to accommodate the player base. So that's a 2004 MMO that, in 2012, modified their housing system in that manner. Frankly, I am quite skeptical of SE devs not having a similar solution, which leads me (as said) to conclude that SE Sales pushed for it.

[Jojoya]

As I've already described, an in-game system would make it easy to identify house flippers.

That's an interesting observation about JP housing. However, is that hearsay, or are there stats? As for why, it could be something like a smaller proportion of JP to EU and NA players, or a cultural JP difference. Or maybe SE is concerned about self-image in JP and is afraid of being perceived of exploiting JP players?

I come from lotro, where they developed a system where they could spawn extra wards to accommodate the player base. So that's a 2004 MMO that, in 2012, modified their housing system in that manner. Frankly, I am quite skeptical of SE devs not having a similar solution, which leads me (as said) to conclude that SE Sales pushed for it.

Create alts on each JP data center and see for yourself. That's what I did last fall and found most JP worlds with dozens if not hundreds of houses available in Mist, Goblet and Lavender Beds (low level alts couldn't get to Shirogane of course). Now that wards 19-21 are open to personal purchase, I plan to do another all world census once I'm not busy with new content.

Being a business that has to weigh and balance financial and technological considerations against player requests doesn't mean they're exploiting any one. If you believe that SE is out to exploit players in general, or NA players specifically, then don't do business with them. There are plenty of other games to be playing.

I played Lotro for 6-7 months in 2014. Housing there flat out sucked. It was terrible. Being able to dynamically expand Neighborhoods was useless when most of them were mostly empty on the servers I played on and many players in the forums were reporting their worlds in similar situations.

But LotRO had also designed Neighborhoods to mingle Fellowship and player houses from the start. Houses here were originally FC only. It was only after wards were mostly empty that SE decided to open houses to personal purchase. They probably hadn't foreseen that happening when they were originally designing and programming the wards, and so didn't foresee a need for dynamic expansion.

If SE really wanted to exploit us, houses would be a mogstation purchase with an additional monthly fee attached. That would be far more effective in exploiting players than allowing players to take breaks of up to 45 days from the game without losing a house.

[Tohe-Spidhire]

...found most JP worlds with dozens if not hundreds of houses available

If you believe that SE is out to exploit players in general, or NA players specifically, then don't do business with them.

I played Lotro for 6-7 months in 2014. Housing ...sucked. ... terrible. Being able to dynamically expand Neighborhoods was useless when most of them were mostly empty on the servers I played on and many players in the forums were reporting their worlds in similar situations.

Houses here were originally FC only. It was only after wards were mostly empty that SE decided to open houses to personal purchase. They probably hadn't foreseen...

If SE really wanted to exploit us, houses would be a mogstation purchase with an additional monthly fee attached.

(Timmed quote to fit)

Thanks for the info. That's interesting about JP wards. So either the NA and EU markets simply have more players, and/or it's a difference in cultural mindset. For example, in another forum thread, someone commented that JP players were experts at the trial DDR, whereas the Echo mainly exists because NA players have a preference to overcoming adversity (i.e., struggling through a fight).

For lotro housing, you needed to hunt for available houses in the low-level wards. At the same time, it was like ffxiv in that you rarely saw anyone in your ward. So it's an exaggeration to say that lotro housing sucked; it did not. Having high-level wards that were mostly empty meant that a busy FC could easily get all their members in the same ward, without inconveniencing other FC players.

Heh, I can see how absurd it would have been to tie housing to FC membership. If SE had been smart, then founding an FC would spawn a ward for *that* FC's members, with an option to spawn additional wards as the FC membership grew. And separate wards could exist for non-FC players.

Why do you consider paying money at the Mog station to be an exploit? The reality would be that SE Sales actually considered Mog housing sales, but was scared of an overreaction from players.

If SE Sales is not being sly, then they can get something like the following done:

- implement the ability to spawn wards
- implement in-game house selling
- delete the accounts of house flippers, which is easy to spot via the in-game housing system
- sell a Mog Store option that allows you to suspend your account for either six months, or a year, without losing your house

Naturally, there can be a middle ground here. And I'm skeptical of the SE development team, which would be following directions from SE Sales. The game is competently put together, so the absurdity of the housing situation is incongruous with this competence, suggesting something intentional.