SE, please nerf Dancer if you aren't going to fix bard.

[HyoMinPark]

Uh........... If you nerf DNC by 800 rDPS, the job is dead. Like deader than dead.

The 5.1 patch buffs to the physical ranged were enough to make the 1% mathematically superior to doing double melee/double caster and dropping the role completely, but the role itself could stand to be buffed again because they’re still behind the rest of the jobs. If you take away that much rDPS from DNC, the job dies.

The DoT nerf BRD got in 5.1 wasn’t worth the “utility” they added back to it, in my opinion. However, I wasn’t expecting any physical ranged changes in 5.2 because they just buffed them. It needs buffed—don’t get me wrong—but so does the physical ranged role as a whole. The answer is not asking for nerfs to another job that is still at the bottom of the DPS charts compared to the other DPS.

Advocating to kill DNC is not the way to go.

[Risvertasashi]

Uh........... If you nerf DNC by 800 rDPS, the job is dead. Like deader than dead.

The 5.1 patch buffs to the physical ranged were enough to make the 1% mathematically superior to doing double melee/double caster and dropping the role completely, but the role itself could stand to be buffed again because they’re still behind the rest of the jobs. If you take away that much rDPS from DNC, the job dies.

The DoT nerf BRD got in 5.1 wasn’t worth the “utility” they added back to it, in my opinion. However, I wasn’t expecting any physical ranged changes in 5.2 because they just buffed them. It needs buffed—don’t get me wrong—but so does the physical ranged role as a whole. The answer is not asking for nerfs to another job that is still at the bottom of the DPS charts compared to the other DPS.

Advocating to kill DNC is not the way to go.

So, let's tweak the numbers. What about a 600 DPS change, allowing BRD a 200 DPS lead?

[HyoMinPark]

So, let's tweak the numbers. What about a 600 DPS change, allowing BRD a 200 DPS lead?

Looking at Titan at 95th percentile, the difference between BRD and DNC currently is roughly 150 rDPS. Your proposed nerf to DNC would actually knock the job down to ~12,600 rDPS going by the E4S numbers—meaning it’s dead.

There’s no need to nerf any job. Just buff BRD (preferably, revert the DoT nerf); and then buff the physical ranged as a whole by a little bit to decrease the gap between them and the other DPS jobs.


I will be curious to see what the job numbers will look at once people get more gear and start killing Verse more seriously/parsing. But I don’t think the thing to do right now is to ask for job nerfs to a job that really cannot stand to be nerfed.

[Risvertasashi]

Looking at Titan at 95th percentile, the difference between BRD and DNC currently is roughly 150 rDPS. Your proposed nerf to DNC would actually knock the job down to ~12,600 rDPS going by the E4S numbers—meaning it’s dead.

There’s no need to nerf any job. Just buff BRD (preferably, revert the DoT nerf); and then buff the physical ranged as a whole by a little bit to decrease the gap between them and the other DPS jobs.


I will be curious to see what the job numbers will look at once people get more gear and start killing Verse more seriously/parsing. But I don’t think the thing to do right now is to ask for job nerfs to a job that really cannot stand to be nerfed.

In certain fights the gap can be narrower due to various factors, but on the whole the gap tends to be wider than that.

And I didn't only list one option. If option 2 is more acceptable to you, then, well, that is an option. It does introduce its own complications (MCH would probably need to be buffed just a tiny bit to keep its lead as the pure damage dealer).

All that said, I do disagree physical ranged needs a role wide buff. The things the role offers as a whole sees it used at all levels of play - ultimate, savage, etc. The problems are internal to the physical ranged role.

[Rivinhal]

And I didn't only list one option. If option 2 is more acceptable to you, then, well, that is an option.

Advocating for killing one job with nerfs to make another seem viable by comparison isn't a suggestion that should be taken seriously. You'd be trading one issue for another instead of actually solving it. That's hardly a realistic option.

[ForteNightshade]

In certain fights the gap can be narrower due to various factors, but on the whole the gap tends to be wider than that.

And I didn't only list one option. If option 2 is more acceptable to you, then, well, that is an option. It does introduce its own complications (MCH would probably need to be buffed just a tiny bit to keep its lead as the pure damage dealer).

All that said, I do disagree physical ranged needs a role wide buff. The things the role offers as a whole sees it used at all levels of play - ultimate, savage, etc. The problems are internal to the physical ranged role.

Eden Prime - 12,632 (DNC) || 12,379 (BRD)
Voidwalker - 14, 407 (DNC) || 14,264 (BRD)
Leviathan - 13, 938 (DNC) || 13,271 (BRD)
Titan - 13, 449 (DNC) || 13,304 (BRD)
Alexander - 11, 813 (DNC) || 11,252 (BRD)

This is the difference between Dancer and Bard in each fight prior to the current Savage tier. Only Leviathan and Alexander see Dancer significantly ahead, especially E3S where Bard can't optimally maintain their dots because of Maelstorm. Alexander, of course, is an AoE heavy fight, which Dancer excels at. A 600-800 rDPS loss would make the job completely worthless. Citing Curing Waltz as an argument for better utility is like pointing to Vercure. Sure, it's nice. But neither are given more than a fleeting thought even in prog. Consider Dragoon, which has the worst options for melee utility, yet it's far and away the most popular job in the whole game right now.

The physical range absolutely need a buff. They are clinging to the 1% party bonus for relevance. There has even been some debate bringing Red Mage and Summoner is better for prog since not only are they both stronger outright—party bonus notwithstanding—but battle raise has huge value. Regardless, it's more than a little absurd how much higher Melee and Casters are. Thus far, we have yet to see enough movement heavy fights where Melee still don't trounce Range in overall DPS. While I maintain Range need some tax for their free mobility, it shouldn't be nearly as significant as it is.