Thank you Yoshi for your stance on DPS meters

[DynnDiablos]

But what if someone is selfish and doesn't want to improve, but still signs up for ex and savage content, they will be holding the team back and maybe preventing clears, and not being able to see that and adjust makes the experience not fun for everyone.

You can't call someone not wanting to analyze DPS numbers selfish, if that is not their focus for the game. Many just want to clear a fight once for the clear, and the game itself offers the opportunity to do that by learning your job, understanding the mechanics of the fight. It is not your place to analyze a player and give them unwanted advice.

[ReiMakoto]

You can't call someone not wanting to analyze DPS numbers selfish, if that is not their focus for the game. Many just want to clear a fight once for the clear, and the game itself offers the opportunity to do that by learning your job, understanding the mechanics of the fight. It is not your place to analyze a player and give them unwanted advice.

It is selfish when it is your dps causing people not to clear, ive seen people reach the 3rd or 4th fight of a raid tier who can do mechinics perfectly but are atrocious at dealing damage. End of the day dealing dps is a mechanic itself when it comes to harder content, and it is selfish not wanting to improve it for the betterment of your party. Having the ability to see who is underperforming would prevent entire groups having to dispand instead of just the one whos holding people back

[Senn]

It has become apparent that a lot of people only want a DPS meter as a tool to monitor other players and/or replace party members. Having your numbers out in the open like that can lead to players getting shamed and harassed as well - which has already happened. I've been in parties where players are calling out other player's parses. Those interactions are rarely pleasant.

I don't support that at all, and Yoshi P is probably of the same mindset. That's why it's unlikely a DPS meter will be added.

I'm all for a personal DPS meter that only shows your own DPS as long as it's used for the purpose of self-improvement. If your party keeps wiping, you need to communicate with them.

[DynnDiablos]

It has become apparent that a lot of people only want a DPS meter as a tool to monitor other players and/or replace party members. Having your numbers out in the open like that can lead to players getting shamed and harassed as well - which has already happened. I've been in parties where players are calling out other player's parses. Those interactions are rarely pleasant.

I don't support that at all, and Yoshi P is probably of the same mindset. That's why it's unlikely a DPS meter will be added.

I'm all for a personal DPS meter that only shows your own DPS as long as it's used for the purpose of self-improvement. If your party keeps wiping, you need to communicate with them.

This is why I have mine hidden, since they can be uploaded without your permission. It really is no one's business.

[ReiMakoto]

You are not paying for my subscription. You have no authority to dictate how I want to play or if I need to improve or not. End of the day. The game is designed a certain way without the use of damage meters. You should take the initiative to state VERY CLEARLY your requirements for a Savage Party or Ultimate party so people can choose whether or not to stay.

Also, I don't pay yours, so you have every right to not want to play with me. Personally, I wouldn't want to be in a party with you anyway since our game goals and motivations are obviously VERY different.

As for learning/clear parties, you have no right to be saying anything about anyone.

This is the textbook definition of a toxic casual mindset.

Say we have a clear party for e3s, the party is full of fairly average players except one player, lets call him Billy. Billy is a Samurai who deals less damage than your average healer, but does mechanics perfectly. In your party of average people with one billy, you will likely hit enrage, and this is where we have a dilema. Everyone in this party has the agreed upon mindset they are learning to try and clear the fight however billy is letting the side down. You say, "you dont pay his sub billy can play how he likes" but we've all agreed we want to clear this content, Billy wants to clear this content. In a scenario with no damage meters, the party is at an impass, sure everyone could theoretically try to be better to bypass Billy, however no one knows that Billy is the problem. I have seen this scenario before, and in this case the party will likely dispand cos if no one can work out where the loose end is, its probably better to just start fresh again, and a party where most players could have cleared it has to wait longer for their clear. In this scenario Billy is being selfish, he has decided he is going to do content that requires high dps, and not focus on his dps. Billy is fine to focus on what he likes, but when his focus is detrimenting others, there needs to be a clear way to identify it and act upon it. So if im the party lead for a clear or learning party, I do have the right to say something about someone, Billy isnt paying our sub, and he is being an active detriment to achieiving our goals however no one would know that.

[Senn]

...

The game should be telling Billy that his DPS is lacking then lol

How about instead of a party DPS meter, we could give Billy a personal meter to show how well he's performing mid fight?
Let's say on one end of the meter, it's red, and on the other end, it's green. If Billy is in the red, then he'll know he's doing poorly. If he's in the green, he's doing good. If Billy's DPS start slowing down, the meter will fall into the red, and if his DPS picks back up, it'll go back into the green. This meter could be small so it doesn't clutter the UI. Doesn't SSS determine how much DPS you need based on the fight and the job of your character? The meter could function the same way. (I also want a dps meter that would show me my DPS numbers though.)

At least with this, Billy will be aware he's holding everyone back.

[DynnDiablos]

This is the textbook definition of a toxic casual mindset.

words

I don't believe I've said anything that would define me as having a "casual toxic mindset." What I am saying is to be clear from the start. You are creating a learning/clear party in PF. Some joins who has the required gear and wants to play E1S for example. They play on PS4...have no access to a parcer, most likely don't even know what it is and you begin to tell them, "well based on my program you are the problem and need to improve or get out" AFTER the party has already gotten things going. That to me is a problem.

You don't have to like what I am saying, you can call me every nasty name under the sun. But I am speaking truth, this game did not design Savage or Ultimate content to be monitored by parcers nor does it require them for people to join with the way things are designed. You PC players have utilized them to create your own thresholds the game does not adhere to.

Which is why YOU need to be one, in the beginning, stating you will be analyzing these things or have everyone agree to certain terms. Also, by calling someone out for their low DPS it is automatically going to be assumed you are using an outside program and you will be reported. So if you are going to play with randoms, you need to understand you are opening yourself up to players with different tools, skillsets and desires. Of course they want to clear it, but they aren't utilizing tools you are to do so and most won't appreciate having their performance publically shamed.

This is why I say be clear upfront, state how you plan to run it and that is it. As I said, I put in my PF for Savage learning we won't be analyzing numbers, won't be using outside sources and are just looking to learn and have a stress-free time. In the end it is very pleasant knowing you don't have someone like you analyzing my every move looking for a weak link. Selfish goes both ways, sweetie.

Now you have a lovely and wonderful day.

[ReiMakoto]

snip.

Im quite upset you didnt even address the billy analogy, i felt it was quite pertinent both the discussion and my stance on things. What if you have a Billy in your stress free party, what if youre the Billy, theres no way of knowing, and thats the problem a lot of us have, its not a malicious be perfect or kick, or meet my high standards, or even looking the "shame" weaker players, its purely practical. If our stated goal is to kill something, having the option to know what is inhibiting that goal is information that every player should have. My ideal situation is the party would have to aggree to it like with lootmaster. The rest of what you said didnt seem relevant to my points, yes those parties currently exist, im arguing it would be a good thing if these systems were baked into the game as dps is a game mechanic. The game does have thresholds, theyre called enrage, the very fact enrages exist means measuring dps becomes a mechanic, wether official or not. Like you said we would unlikely cross paths in PF unless youre joining clear or farm parties with clearly stated goals, which most people do, its just that as the system currently is people can join these parties without meeting the parties requirements, and may not even know it because the game doesnt tell you how you perform

[Penthea]

You are not paying for my subscription. You have no authority to dictate how I want to play or if I need to improve or not.

As for learning/clear parties, you have no right to be saying anything about anyone.

While it is true no one has the right to dictate how you play, I can't help but recall that you had said before many times (you have since deleted those posts) that no one is allowed to comment on what you're doing. I feel like you're saying the same thing again, but worded in a more subtle manner in an attempt to appear vaguely reasonable, when you're not.

If you join a group you are entering a public space. Anything you do is everyone's business because everything you do affects the whole group. Every player in your group is allowed to comment on something that affects them.

The only way you're going to be able to avoid any commentary is by always making your own groups with a rule forbidding it, or leaving the game.