Can we get choices that really matter and have a effect?

[linay]

Look, I don't mind stories about good and evil, but the writers are clearly trying to go the moral relativist route to some degree here. Good and evil are simplistic, reductive and dismissive labels if used outside of absolute morality situations.

No, it's not. Defining good and evil is the basis of morality.

In the end, FFXIV is a game where you will beat the enemy, and if the enemy ends up being spared/justified in the story because of moral relativism, then that would just make for a poor story in my opinion. So far, I don't think FFXIV has gone that route, and I hope they never do.

Based on your arguments, you also might be confusing moral nihilism with relativism?

I don't think I am. I am speaking of the idea that you recognize that other people may have different moral viewpoints and then try to limit the application of your own moral viewpoint so as to not impose on theirs. That idea is what I reject.

If I am opposing someone because that person is doing something that I think is wrong, then it is irrelevant if they think they're doing something right because they have a different moral worldview/circumstances unless they can convince me to adopt their moral worldview or they can convince me that they are not doing what I think they're doing.

If that's not what you mean by moral relativism, then please explain.

Moral nihilism, to me, seems to be about rejecting all moral values because there is no meaning to any of it in the end. I would also disagree with it, and do think moral relativism is one step closer to nihilism, but that's not what I was discussing specifically.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

I made this to make a point that choice is to open up to all view points not one of basic morality...

Just because society or 1000s or even millions or billions of people might agree with the moral choices not everyone does and thats why I made this because i believe choices satisfy everyone and not enforce a singler morality belive. Yes the ones I made examples of I truely believe are morality right and has done nothing wrong thats my opinion. If you don't like that you can shove it but thats my true opinion it has nothign to do with age or whatever other nonsense its my own experience and emotion that makes me side with those characters I don't put the opinions to be called names and what other else nonsense I was trying to make a serious point of choices never cause harm to the story in the fact it helps it...

But I'm done I'm just done I'm so tired of self rightous jerks casting judgement on a opinion because the masses can't understand it. I'll just write my own story and one day learn to make a private server that I can put a real in depth story that doesn't force their morality on others.

I have been nothing but nice,kind respectfull even when stating my opinions and views on examples of characters this is why i hate socializing with people can't share any thing or example without dealing with bs.. but sure i'm the w/e you want to call me because I don't submit to the masses view point and morality scale.

I'm done sharing my opinions and views or even socializing with people I'll just write my characters story and share it and throw out all the lore that my character views has incorrect and wrong like Emet-set and make my own story with my character and turn it into whatever you call it fanfiction or whatever. I'm done with this topic hate me or not idc everyone does anyways whenever I try to seriousely make a point or share my morality and view points.

[Packetdancer]

But I'm done I'm just done I'm so tired of self rightous jerks casting judgement on a opinion because the masses can't understand it. I'll just write my own story and one day learn to make a private server that I can put a real in depth story that doesn't force their morality on others.

I mean, literally everything else about this discussion aside... the simple truth is that it is not technologically feasible to make an MMO that supports even two wildly divergent stories, much less a whole slew more. If you lose in ARR or deliberately side with the Garleans, then you're never even in a position to be at a certain banquet just before Heavensward. And the story diverges further and further from there. You certainly wouldn't be helping to free Ala Mhigo or Doma from Garlean rule in Stormblood!

You can do games where you have multiple factions (see WoW, for instance, or DAoC) but even then they have to share the same actual world state and overall story. If you let players also play Garleans, then for the Scions to win in ARR the Garleans still have to lose.

It's when the world state diverges—if you get to choose whether to let Emet-Selch win or lose—then how the heck do you go forward from that? Do they have to make two entirely separate 6.0 expansions? One where you go back to fight the Garleans on the Source, and one where the Source has been destroyed and you wander off to some other shard to help the Ascians destroy it as well? Moreover, players wouldn't really be able to share the same servers, because if there were dungeons/raids set in Garlemald in hero!6.0 there'd be no rational way for people to run them in villain!6.0.

You would, in effect, be making two entirely separate MMOs. And you'd have to do that again every time there was a point of divergence. So then you're making five separate MMOs. Fourteen. Sixty-five. Etc.

Even if people agreed with the premise, even if the devs liked the idea, the simple truth is it is not practical for SquareEnix to do it. They have to tell one story. And if they can only tell one story, clearly the one they want to tell is about moving past pain and trauma rather than letting it control and rule you. And similarly, if there can only be one story, the one where you fall and become the villain is clearly not the one the majority of FFXIV players want, either. Witness this thread.

[Packetdancer]

To add to this (thaaaank you, forum 3000 character post limit)...

If this is really your passion in storytelling, really the story you want to tell in a game, then it honestly may be that this is not the game for you. Clearly you are unhappy with the story and the game, and the truth is the game is not going to change to suit your desires in the story. I hope you find the game that does suit you and which you can enjoy.

FWIW, though, making a private server for an existing MMO as you mention does not generally allow you to significantly change the storyline, because the dialogue and cutscenes and whatnot are all part of the client. And unless you have the source code for the client, duplicating that side of things is far more difficult than reverse engineering the servers. If you really want a divergent storyline, you'll do far better to start your own game company and make an MMO.

And if that's the path you choose to follow... more power to you! Make the game you want to play, one where there's no good or evil, just differing shades of gray and horrible choices to be made. It could be interesting, and maybe there's a lot of other folks who would like it!

I'm genuinely not being facetious or sarcastic here; the beauty of the world is that there's always space for someone else to try telling another story of their own. (Whether or not various other people like that story is a different matter, of course.)

Good luck, either way, and I hope you find the game you're looking for out there.

[Iscah]

To add to this (thaaaank you, forum 3000 character post limit)...

Editing your post after you make it will bypass the character limit.

If you go over the limit, just cut the entire text, type something short like "editing..." and then edit and paste the text back in.

[Gula]

I mean, literally everything else about this discussion aside... the simple truth is that it is not technologically feasible to make an MMO that supports even two wildly divergent stories, much less a whole slew more.

Let's never forget dubbing each of these scenarios in in multiple languages, making sure the localization is all on point, and hundreds more hours from the writers to make sure everything is on point and air tight from ARR to current. And side quests. Literally, thousands upon thousands of side quests. For all scenarios.

[PyurBlue]

I mean, literally everything else about this discussion aside... the simple truth is that it is not technologically feasible to make an MMO that supports even two wildly divergent stories, much less a whole slew more.

It is possible, just not with FF14's way of story telling. It's too rigid. You can have a more sandbox MMO where the player has more agency and creates their own role in the world. That's honestly what I expect from MMO story telling, but it's not what SE wants from FF14.

Something that FF14 can do is give us elements of the story to control. They've already done this, though perhaps not in any major way. We did get to choose which Grand Company to side with, although this doesn't effect the story much except the initial GC quest location. SE could expand on choices like this. Ultimately they will connect back to the main story at the same point, but the details surround our character can change like they did in Shadowbringers depending on whether or not we did the CT raids.

[Gula]

It is possible, just not with FF14's way of story telling. It's too rigid.

It is a JRPG with a pre-written story as played by you. The same goes for just about every Final Fantasy. Sure you can have Cloud spend 5 hours snowboarding but at the end of the day he's gotta go after Sephiroth. You, the player, can select choices that sympathize more for the Garleans, but at the end of the Eorzean day, you are playing a Warrior of Light that will do what is right.

[PyurBlue]

It is a JRPG with a pre-written story as played by you. The same goes for just about every Final Fantasy. Sure you can have Cloud spend 5 hours snowboarding but at the end of the day he's gotta go after Sephiroth. You, the player, can select choices that sympathize more for the Garleans, but at the end of the Eorzean day, you are playing a Warrior of Light that will do what is right.

Right, that's how SE has decided to write the story. A more varied story isn't impossible to implement, but it wouldn't work with SE's game design. Their rigid form of story telling isn't totally incompatible with branching stories though, the branches would just have to be limited to details in the middle of the story rather than drastically changing the outcome.

[Gula]

Right, that's how SE has decided to write the story. A more varied story isn't impossible to implement, but it wouldn't work with SE's game design. Their rigid form of story telling isn't totally incompatible with branching stories though, the branches would just have to be limited to details in the middle of the story rather than drastically changing the outcome.

Square Enix didn't write it. Oda and Ishikawa wrote it with the occasional guest star as well as the writers in their department for side quests ect. I believe they should be properly credited because of what they write and how they write it is also different. Such as the differences between YoRHa, Ivalice and Crystal Tower.