Sex between the Races Lore?

[kujoestars]

If au ra can breed with hyur, then they’re not reptiles or close to reptiles. In our world at least, mammals close to reptiles still have cloaca and lay eggs. They can’t be related to the first brood either since dragons didn’t come to Hydaelyn until after the worlds split, yet au ra show up on the First.

They just happen to be their own (weird) thing.

On being able to reproduce with Hyur: *cough cough* Weird fantasy shit *cough*

I also didn't say they were reptiles; just "partly reptilian", i.e. having traits in between mammals and reptiles in a similar manner to therapsids, albeit with a lot more mammalian traits.

I do agree Auri are just weird though; just more in the "wtf taxonomic class are lizard people?"

Didn't know about Middy coming to Hydaelyn only post-world shattering, but who's to say we don't have dragon-like critters running about that were the ancestors to Au Ra? Now I'm curious if there are any legends concerning dragons on the First, even as pure mythical creatures. I'm pretty sure the name "Drahn" isn't a coincidence, but I'm going yo have to get through Stormblood before I can crack that myself.

Guess that depends on whether or not Shinryu actually existed as a being. Minion description mentions the actual Shinryu of legend was described as being more like a serpent than a dragon, so it's possible if he was ever real, there could be dragon-like beings serving as the source of legends in the Far East. Hard to say without confirmation though so it's purely a wild guess. I still maintain Au-Ra are descended from reptiles. Granted, all mammals are, but Auri could be from a branch on the cladogram that still maintains various reptilian traits like not only the obvious scales and tail, but also the hearing style (which from lore, is perceived via vibration through bone, albeit with horns extending off to enhance the vibrations before it reaches the skull).

Just imagine if instead of losing all reptilian features, mammals retained a few defining bits and you get Au Ra.

Ending on a random nerd fact: Did you know hair/fur are actually modified scales just like feathers are for birds? Heck, some mammals even retain their scales while have sparser hair (e.g. armadillos and pangolins). I'm not arguing that Auri aren't mammals, but they have some very unmammalian traits that make me think "BS fantasy classification".

Man, I honestly would love for there to be even a short writing piece about Eorzean biology.

[Iscah]

On being able to reproduce with Hyur: *cough cough* Weird fantasy shit *cough*

I also didn't say they were reptiles; just "partly reptilian", i.e. having traits in between mammals and reptiles in a similar manner to therapsids, albeit with a lot more mammalian traits.

I do agree Auri are just weird though; just more in the "wtf taxonomic class are lizard people?"

As I've said in a couple of discussions, having scales doesn't make them reptilian, and horns are a mammalian trait.

Armadilloes or pangolins seem like a better reference for how Auri 'scales' might actually work in reality.

[kujoestars]

As I've said in a couple of discussions, having scales doesn't make them reptilian, and horns are a mammalian trait.

Armadilloes or pangolins seem like a better reference for how Auri 'scales' might actually work in reality.

There are a lot of irl reptiles both extant and extinct that have horns???? And even so, no mammal has horns that work anything like Au Ra horns. Technically no irl animal uses horns for hearing that I know of, but the whole hearing via bone vibrations is a distinctly reptilian trait.

Again, I'm not saying Auri are actually reptiles; I'm just saying they seem more like being a transition point of sorts between reptiles and mammals. The scales are also implicitly described as resembling dragon scales on the character creation screen. Of course, that most likely is a result of convergent evolution from whatever species their ancestors were, but I doubt they're anything like what exists irl. This is the part I waggle my fingers and say "weeaboo fantasy bullshit". What the heck would we even call reptile kemonomimis? I just don't think full on mammal correctly identifies Au Ra. Sure, they hit almost everything on the mammal checklist, but so does every distinctly not mammalian Beast Tribe like Sahagin, Amal'jaa, and Gnath.

But short of getting a full on anatomical dissection (which is alas never gonna happen), it's hard to gauge what exact traits Auri have. especially what's under their pants, lol. Being able to reproduce with Hyur unfortunately doesn't mean much in a fantasy setting and irl taxonomy REALLY falls apart when classifying certain fantasy creatures (what would a griffin even be classified as? to say nothing of the evolutionary improbability if we were to apply irl evolution on them.

I love trying to piece together fantasy biology exactly because it's never simple when it comes to human-like species with bestial traits. I honestly doubt the taxonomies would even work the same at all. Heck, we have actual mobs based on prehistoric animals but many look nothing like them *sideeyes raptors and gastornis, the latter of which is hilariously what Chocobos are based on but in the game they're literally colorful dodos*

[Dakuryon]

There are a lot of irl reptiles both extant and extinct that have horns???? And even so, no mammal has horns that work anything like Au Ra horns. Technically no irl animal uses horns for hearing that I know of, but the whole hearing via bone vibrations is a distinctly reptilian trait.

Again, I'm not saying Auri are actually reptiles; I'm just saying they seem more like being a transition point of sorts between reptiles and mammals. The scales are also implicitly described as resembling dragon scales on the character creation screen. Of course, that most likely is a result of convergent evolution from whatever species their ancestors were, but I doubt they're anything like what exists irl. This is the part I waggle my fingers and say "weeaboo fantasy bullshit". What the heck would we even call reptile kemonomimis? I just don't think full on mammal correctly identifies Au Ra. Sure, they hit almost everything on the mammal checklist, but so does every distinctly not mammalian Beast Tribe like Sahagin, Amal'jaa, and Gnath.

But short of getting a full on anatomical dissection (which is alas never gonna happen), it's hard to gauge what exact traits Auri have. especially what's under their pants, lol. Being able to reproduce with Hyur unfortunately doesn't mean much in a fantasy setting and irl taxonomy REALLY falls apart when classifying certain fantasy creatures (what would a griffin even be classified as? to say nothing of the evolutionary improbability if we were to apply irl evolution on them.

I love trying to piece together fantasy biology exactly because it's never simple when it comes to human-like species with bestial traits. I honestly doubt the taxonomies would even work the same at all. Heck, we have actual mobs based on prehistoric animals but many look nothing like them *sideeyes raptors and gastornis, the latter of which is hilariously what Chocobos are based on but in the game they're literally colorful dodos*

^ All of this. Especially the transition part, it actually makes sense! ㅇㅅㅇ
Auri biology has always been a subject of interest to me, but I honestly never could fully understand it until now. You the best~

[LineageRazor]

Again, I'm not saying Auri are actually reptiles; I'm just saying they seem more like being a transition point of sorts between reptiles and mammals.

Spoiler tags, just in case:

Bear in mind, the world as we know it is only twelve thousand years old. It's highly unlikely that ANY of the animals or intelligent races on the planet "evolved" to become what they are now. 12,000 years is simply too short a timespan for that.

The life on the planet is mostly or entirely descended from the "new life" Zodiark created at the behest of the Convocation in order to heal the damaged planet. He likely created all of the races and species as they are now, and they likely have not changed a great deal since then.

In the world of FFXIV, Creationism is the reality, and Evolution the myth! (Unless, I suppose, you consider the evolution that lead up to the Ancients and the plants and animals that co-existed with them prior to Zodiark's creation.) There are actual gods (even if they're really Primals, they're still pretty darned godlike); we know one personally, and Emet-Selch recently gave us the lowdown on the other.

Long story short: The Au Ra did not descend from dragons or voidsent, but were created to be exactly what they are, just as everyone else was. WHY did Zodiark create so many races? Only he knows for certain...

[kujoestars]

Spoiler tags, just in case:

Bear in mind, the world as we know it is only twelve thousand years old. It's highly unlikely that ANY of the animals or intelligent races on the planet "evolved" to become what they are now. 12,000 years is simply too short a timespan for that.

The life on the planet is mostly or entirely descended from the "new life" Zodiark created at the behest of the Convocation in order to heal the damaged planet. He likely created all of the races and species as they are now, and they likely have not changed a great deal since then.

In the world of FFXIV, Creationism is the reality, and Evolution the myth! (Unless, I suppose, you consider the evolution that lead up to the Ancients and the plants and animals that co-existed with them prior to Zodiark's creation.) There are actual gods (even if they're really Primals, they're still pretty darned godlike); we know one personally, and Emet-Selch recently gave us the lowdown on the other.

Long story short: The Au Ra did not descend from dragons or voidsent, but were created to be exactly what they are, just as everyone else was. WHY did Zodiark create so many races? Only he knows for certain...

Explain why we literally have “evolution” mentioned in the Dunesfolk Lala creation screen then (i.e, “Perhaps the most unique characteristic of the Dunesfolk is their luminous eyes - a result of a glossy, protective layer which covers the pupil, an evolutionary response to their homeland's glaring sunlight”). :V

Just because Zodiark put new lifeforms in doesn’t mean he made them that way. It’s perfectly plausible since he and Ascians are in a completely separate dimension that he just tossed in the “base materials” so to speak and fast-forwarded to where everything is already going. They just didn’t turn out like the Ascians wanted.

[Iscah]

There are a lot of irl reptiles both extant and extinct that have horns???? And even so, no mammal has horns that work anything like Au Ra horns. Technically no irl animal uses horns for hearing that I know of, but the whole hearing via bone vibrations is a distinctly reptilian trait.

Again, I'm not saying Auri are actually reptiles; I'm just saying they seem more like being a transition point of sorts between reptiles and mammals. The scales are also implicitly described as resembling dragon scales on the character creation screen. Of course, that most likely is a result of convergent evolution from whatever species their ancestors were, but I doubt they're anything like what exists irl. This is the part I waggle my fingers and say "weeaboo fantasy bullshit". What the heck would we even call reptile kemonomimis? I just don't think full on mammal correctly identifies Au Ra. Sure, they hit almost everything on the mammal checklist, but so does every distinctly not mammalian Beast Tribe like Sahagin, Amal'jaa, and Gnath.

Re. horns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_(anatomy)

Without having done further research, most of the examples are about mammals; horned reptiles seem to be grouped under having "other hornlike growths" though I don't exactly understand the distinction.

In any case, the point is that having horns doesn't inherently suggest having reptilian traits.

Basically, given the choice between "they're human-like mammals that have non-human traits found in other mammals" and "they're human-like mammals that have retained reptilian traits from their distant evolutionary past", it seems far simpler to assume they are fully mammalian. They have scales (probably more accurately scutes) but the rest of their skin is human-like, so it makes sense that the scales would most likely be structured like a creature evolutionarily closer to humans.

(Yes, evolution may not be in effect here, but let's assume it is for the sake of the argument.)

Remember that there's a lot of evolutionary distance between reptiles and humans - there are a lot of stages to go through for one branch of humans to somehow carry those reptilian traits while nothing inbetween or alongside them also has it.

And we know for certain that they're the same overall species as the other human races, or close enough to interbreed, as we have a historical record of a half-Hyur half-Auri child born in Sui-no-Sato. So they can't be some other reptilian race that has ended up in humanlike form by pure coincidence of convergent evolution.

However they ended up with their unique features, they probably evolved them independently of anything else since no other creature has horns over the ears like they do.

[kujoestars]

-snip-

I had a response typed up for this, but it seems to have gotten eaten by the server along the way, so I’m going to attempt to remake it.

First off all, I never said horns themselves are a reptilian trait. I was referring to how Auri hear by vibrations through the jawbone, which is a reptilian trait albeit augmented further with horns. And the article didn’t say horns in general are mammalian, so the assertion before that horns are mainly a mammalian trait is incorrect. Regardless, my focus was on the hearing as opposed to the horns themselves so it’s a moot point.

(re:scutes - scutes are literally modified scales in the case of reptiles and while you would be correct to think part of Au Ra anatomy has it -definitely along the spine- they still canonically have scales that molt in a similar fashion to reptiles. Heck, an entire tribe of Xaela use their shed scales as reinforcement for their canoes, so I would assume when they shed, it’s like a tougher and more waterproof version of snakeskin)

Meta-wise, everyone looks like glorified hoomans to save the devs a lot of modeling headache.

In-universe, I personally think it’s a peculiar case of convergent evolution that most sapient races somehow look like different flavors of human. It’s also worth nothing that just because a species is the only one with a certain trait doesn’t mean it happened with that species. Irl examples of species who are unique in their taxa now but previously shared traits with many others include coelocanths and nautilii. For a period of time, their respective traits were commonplace, but now they’re the only ones with them within their taxonomic classifications. In a similar vein, I would argue there could have been an entire order of scalekin that had horns modified for hearing in prehistoric Hydaelyn that now only persist in the Auri people.

Also, I think the fact we have Miqo’te, who most definitely had a feline ancestor of some sort, and no other cat-like primate (or ape-like feline depending how you want to look at it) lends support to the idea that all Spoken evolved convergently and ended up genetically similar by pure weird fantasy shenanigans, Of course, if we want to go standard Occam’s Razor, for all we know there was some common ancestor that looked nothing like any of the races but branched into them regardless.

And no, I really don’t think Hroth count as cat-apes and if anything, they seem to lend even more support to the whole convergent evolution theory because they likely share a common ancestor with Miqos (possibly Roe too?).

Hybridization in fantasy also means very little because of Weird Magic BS(TM). For all we know, literally all Spoken races are capable of making viable offspring including between men and applicable beastmen, but I doubt anyone is going to bang an Amal’jaa or a Goblin or a Qiqirn to find out.