How would people feel if they took positional requirements away?

[Bright-Flower]

I think tanks pushing dps by being in tank stance as little as possible is a bit part of why they changed it.

I could be wrong. I'm not on the dev team. But I think the intent of dps/tank stances was to give off tanks or tanks in solo play a bit more dps while not having them do too much damage while tanking. Then the dps focused community started trying to milk out every last drop of dps. Meet the bare minimum of enmity generation and survability then pump out dps. My guess (and it is just my speculation) is that a big part, if not the main reason, of the tank stance changes was to remove that aspect of tanks sacrificing defense and enmity to pump out damage, and just leaving the enmity aspect on our stances to make it easier to manage enmity for off tanks. Though really that could be done with shirk and provoke uses in 8 mans, it's still useful to toggle the stance in alliance raids I find to be above your party in enmity but not threatening to pull off the MT.

For positionals I feel like monk is really the only dps where it actually feels like part of the identity because it's FILLED with positionals rather than just tacked onto one or two skills.

[Dzian]

I think tanks pushing dps by being in tank stance as little as possible is a bit part of why they changed it.

I could be wrong. I'm not on the dev team. But I think the intent of dps/tank stances was to give off tanks or tanks in solo play a bit more dps while not having them do too much damage while tanking. Then the dps focused community started trying to milk out every last drop of dps. Meet the bare minimum of enmity generation and survability then pump out dps. My guess (and it is just my speculation) is that a big part, if not the main reason, of the tank stance changes was to remove that aspect of tanks sacrificing defense and enmity to pump out damage, and just leaving the enmity aspect on our stances to make it easier to manage enmity for off tanks. Though really that could be done with shirk and provoke uses in 8 mans, it's still useful to toggle the stance in alliance raids I find to be above your party in enmity but not threatening to pull off the MT.

For positionals I feel like monk is really the only dps where it actually feels like part of the identity because it's FILLED with positionals rather than just tacked onto one or two skills.

I dont think it was so much the dps focussed community. Just bad encounter design. It's been an issue since arr basically. The problem is damage is highly scripted and predictable which makes defence a total joke. When you know for sure your only going to get smacked once every 45 seconds. Then tank stance for the other 44 seconds is useless. And When defence is a joke it's only natural you focus on offence instead.

It's the same reason they got rid of debuffs and stuff. Because 99% of the time it was just spam blunt arrow or whatever skill on cooldown for a bit of extra damage. Because needing to actually rebuff anything was a joke.

The game is centred entirely around dps. Nothing else matters. So you can't really blame the community for the direction it's gone in. It's bad design that has pushed the community towards dps mindsets

[Aomine1992]

Lol what why? I think the only job who has positional that could be trimmed is MNK but then again that job needs a complete overhaul anyways but the only complexity to that job now is positionals since greased lighting isn’t even worth an after thought anymore...

Melee jobs have like no type of complexity besides ninja and it’s 5million button opener, just keep the positionals but I think SE needs to really buckle down on their future encounters cause I simple hate melee jobs because it makes these encounters extra annoying to deal with besides like leviathan.

[RyuDragnier]

The game is centred entirely around dps. Nothing else matters. So you can't really blame the community for the direction it's gone in. It's bad design that has pushed the community towards dps mindsets

No, the community pushed it into its direction. Remember how people complained how Labyrinth of the Ancients was too hard because we had to CC and do some time consuming mechanics for several bosses? Remember how Pharos Sirius got nerfed because players complained that they couldn't just burn everything down and had to do mechanics? Remember how Steps of Faith had to be nerfed because people refused to learn how to use the cannons and whatnot and tried to just burn the boss down? Remember how they tried to get Final Steps of Faith nerfed because they thought it was too hard? Remember how the community tried to get Royal Menagerie nerfed because they thought it was too hard? The community is the reason everything is dumbed down to this point, the community is the only reason why these nerfs happen. SE never led things to this point, the community did.

[VeolE]

No, the community pushed it into its direction. Remember how people complained how Labyrinth of the Ancients was too hard because we had to CC and do some time consuming mechanics for several bosses? Remember how Pharos Sirius got nerfed because players complained that they couldn't just burn everything down and had to do mechanics? Remember how Steps of Faith had to be nerfed because people refused to learn how to use the cannons and whatnot and tried to just burn the boss down? Remember how they tried to get Final Steps of Faith nerfed because they thought it was too hard? Remember how the community tried to get Royal Menagerie nerfed because they thought it was too hard? The community is the reason everything is dumbed down to this point, the community is the only reason why these nerfs happen. SE never led things to this point, the community did.

Remember how no one ask for the Devs to change AST cards? Remember how no one ask for Healers to be a one trick dot/one DPS button? Remember how no one ask EVERYTHING to be Homogenized so everything can be the same? Remember how no one ask DRK/WAR to be Re-skins of each other? Remember how no one complains about GNB SFX being too loud? (despite the minority) Remember when no one ask Tanks to be brain dead easy on aggro management?

There's also more to it, but that's all I remember so far. It's not always the community fault too, the DEVs thought it was a great idea to have these type of changes that no one ask for.

[RyuDragnier]

Remember how no one ask for the Devs to change AST cards? Remember how no one ask for Healers to be a one trick dot/one DPS button? Remember how no one ask EVERYTHING to be Homogenized so everything can be the same? Remember how no one ask DRK/WAR to be Re-skins of each other? Remember how no one complains about GNB SFX being too loud? (despite the minority) Remember when no one ask Tanks to be brain dead easy on aggro management?

There's also more to it, but that's all I remember so far. It's not always the community fault too, the DEVs thought it was a great idea to have these type of changes that no one ask for.

Remember how people complained a lot of the cards were useless? Remember how people kept complaining that DPSing was too hard on healers? Remember how people kept complaining that PLD was useless in HW because it couldn't do anything against magic and how DRK was useless in SB because the other tanks could do things better than them? Remember how people wished DRK did more damage like WAR? Remember how people complained about GNB SFX being too loud (it was a minority, but people complained)? Remember how people complained that tanks were too busy DPSing and not trying to hold aggro?

Every single change, EVERY SINGLE CHANGE on these lines are because of the community. Sugarcoat it all you want, but it's the damn truth, and I say this as somebody who has played since 2.0.

[TheCount]

Been thinking about this lately. I mean, on the one hand, some people would feel that melees would be too brain dead easy, but others would say that positionals add a level of complexity and challenge to the jobs.

I mean I always wondered if people find positonals stupid gimmicks they we shouldn't have to sweat over.

Unless they add something else that adds to the skill requirement in being optimal and efficient then no, absolutely not.

[Derio]

I would like to see them go. I mean you dont see ranged having certain abilities that have higher potency at different ranges do you.

[Nedkel]

Can we delete jumping and running, and auto attacking as well? It makes game too hard, my smol brain cant comprehend the novelty of moving at different speed and sticking to the target.

[Shurrikhan]

I would like to see them go. I mean you dont see ranged having certain abilities that have higher potency at different ranges do you.

Perhaps because the two have... absolutely nothing to do with one another, and one solely adds complexity to the class (and obliges a tiny bit of tanking common sense) while the other predominantly adds frustrations for their party?