How would people feel if they took positional requirements away?

[DRKoftheAzure]

If people didn't to defend enmity combos because DPS, why should I care about positionals because DPS...?

[Fhaerron]

If people didn't to defend enmity combos because DPS, why should I care about positionals because DPS...?

I'm not 100% sure what you mean so please explain to me if I answer wrong.

Emnity combos were useless in SB, because they did less DPS and we didn't need more emnity. We had Shirk and Provoke and that was all you needed. And WAR were gods and had a great opener to build up that emnity.
Even in the case when something went wrong and a tank died you could just provoke and shield lob and you had the boss back.

During ARR & HW tank DPS was 'less important', it was only really since the second half of HW that tank DPS became a real thing (skip soar or disband) because a lot of pugs are just total fail and couldn't do mechanics so they had to cheese.

[DRKoftheAzure]

I'm not 100% sure what you mean so please explain to me if I answer wrong.

Emnity combos were useless in SB, because they did less DPS and we didn't need more emnity. We had Shirk and Provoke and that was all you needed. And WAR were gods and had a great opener to build up that emnity.
Even in the case when something went wrong and a tank died you could just provoke and shield lob and you had the boss back.

During ARR & HW tank DPS was 'less important', it was only really since the second half of HW that tank DPS became a real thing (skip soar or disband) because a lot of pugs are just total fail and couldn't do mechanics so they had to cheese.

"Skip Soar or gtfo" and Provoke+Shirk and giving enmity dumps to every single person is what started the decline interesting tank mechanics, casuals complaining that holding aggro/using aggro dumps is too hard is what basically made tank role as a concept dead... and now that they took away enmity combos and aggro dumps(though aggro dumps should not have existed in the first place) that were not Shirk, they will go after positionals and True North next... I guarantee it...

[DPZ2]

casuals complaining that holding aggro/using aggro dumps is too hard is what basically made tank role as a concept dead...

Sources for this off-hand statement?

I don't remember seeing any questions for the Live Letters around 'holding aggro is too hard'; neither do I remember massive forum posts about the difficulties of tanking and how it should be made easier.

There are certainly a number of people posting on the forums these days complaining about 'the casuals' ...

[ForteNightshade]

Sources for this off-hand statement?

I don't remember seeing any questions for the Live Letters around 'holding aggro is too hard'; neither do I remember massive forum posts about the difficulties of tanking and how it should be made easier.

There are certainly a number of people posting on the forums these days complaining about 'the casuals' ...

I think it's fairly reasonable to assume the biggest catalyst for them turning aggro into a joke is they didn't like how the community responded. Tanks wouldn't go into Tank Stance, they'd simply demand DPS use Diversion/Lucid/Tactician/Refresh. I'm guilty of letting many a DPS eat tank busters for refusing to pop Diversion. >.>

Now I doubt that was their only reason but I suspect it was a significant factor in their decision.

[Shurrikhan]

Casuals complaining that holding aggro/using aggro dumps is too hard is what basically made tank role as a concept dead... and now that they took away enmity combos and aggro dumps(though aggro dumps should not have existed in the first place) that were not Shirk, they will go after positionals and True North next... I guarantee it...

...When did anyone complain about that unless at half the gear of their fellow dungeon-runners? If anything, most complained that it was too easy, and made tank stance a mere trap outside of AoE gathers.

It was removed on the basis of bloat and disuse, not difficulty.

[Jojoya]

...When did anyone complain about that unless at half the gear of their fellow dungeon-runners? If anything, most complained that it was too easy, and made tank stance a mere trap outside of AoE gathers.

It was removed on the basis of bloat and disuse, not difficulty.

Tank stance wasn't removed. We still have it. It's been changed. Now it increases enmity immensely. It no longer adds mitigation. It no longer has a DPS penalty.

It was the DPS stance that got removed, even though it was getting used more.

There were absolutely complaints about tanks not being able to hold threats even when it wasn't a gear difference at issue. I can remember progression streamers joking about how a lucky crit on a DPS opener would leave the DPS tanking because their enmity spiked before the tank could complete their first enmity combo.

But suggest to DPS that they refrain using their opening burst a few seconds so the tank could complete their first enmity combo and it was a steady stream of WAH WAH WAH I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO WAIT.

Suggest to tanks that they leave their tank stance on longer so they'd have a better lead on enmity and it was a steady stream of WAH WAH WAH BUT MY DPS.

So SE changed tank stance so enmity and DPS were no longer a problem. I was on my level 64 PLD last week. Came across a pair of DPS (76 and 79) trying to kill a HW Rank A. They had it down to 70% but were struggling from the damage they were taking. So I jumped in and was on top of the enmity list 2 Shield Lobs and an enmity combo later. It would have taken me a lot longer to overtake them on enmity if this had happened last expac.