Am I missing something, or are Dark Knights just terrible?

[Malmstrom]

The loss of the Quietus/Blood Price/DA+AB feedback loop makes big pulls during sub-70 dungeons a bit more challenging than it used to be. Even after the MP gain on BP was nerfed, it was still enough in a large pull to self-sustain via DA+AB combined with the MP gain on Quietus. I really miss Blood Price sometimes.

Popping Blood Price and spamming Dark Arts and Abyssal Drain into giant packs of enemies was one of the things I loved the most about DRK.

[MerlinCross]

what if while we are under the "walking dead" status we could push the living dead key again to heal ourselves 100% of our hp at the cost of putting living dead into a 7 min cooldown?

That way we could use ld every 5 min as always and if worse comes to worse we could up ourselves but with a big cost of +2 min cd.

Just give DRK mad Lifesteal after getting Walking Dead Status.

Not to the point a DRK can heal themselves up to full but enough to make it easier on the healers.

[Alaeacus]

In my opinion, TBN is not as OP in large trash pulls as some people in this thread claim it to be. Sure you can use it often, but in large trash pulls it gets broken so fast that you are still losing health at an extremely rapid pace and will die if your healer isn't very good at healing. TBN consumes a whopping 3000 mp, feeds a resource for the DRK by breaking, which is a level of resource management none of the other tanks even need to deal with. You can't spam TBN as it's on a short cooldown and consumes a ton of MP. How does DRK regain MP? Do your AOE combo on pack of mobs. Does your AOE combo have self-heal? NOPE. Only your single-target combo has that. Are you going to be single-target attacking when you have pulled a large pack of mobs? You'd be an idiot if you were. Oh, and don't forget to keep your Darkness gauge up (more gauge-watching busy-work).

If your healer isn't that good at healing, your MP gain through AOE is going to be too slow to keep up with TBN spam, of which breaks almost immediately and offers very little reprieve from damage, and you aren't even self-healing in the process because you've locked yourself usually in the AOE rotation. In contrast, one Clemency on yourself as PLD and 50% of your life is immediately filled. You can do this multiple times in a mob pull giving everyone around you far more time to AOE kill the mobs. Sure it forces you to stop doing DPS but a dead Tank does zero-DPS and zero aggro, so I think it's a fair trade-off.

In my personal experience, DRK is far more reliant on other team members to stay alive than PLD. I personally do not like that. THis is my biggest gripe against DRK. DRK is absolutely, hands-down amazing in a great party that works together and all are mid to high-level players. Not as much in low-skill level parties. Don't even get me started on Living Dead (DRK tank buster defense) which pretty much requires a healer to be around and watching you like a hawk. SO stupid.

DRK's have Delirium > Quietus spam for groups, which is fun to watch. But PLD's have Requiescat > Holy Circle which is basically the same type of spam, even if it damages a bit less.

OP, take all opinions here (including mine) with a grain of salt. The majority of people in this thread only play with friends or a dedicated group (often end-game Static). They are giving you their biased opinion from that viewpoint of always playing in a coordinated, well-honed party. Very few people on this forum will be giving you an opinion based on being in crappy PUG roulette groups which, if you're anything like me, will be the vast majority of your groups.

[shao32]

snip

you asume to much, ppl playing DRK better that you and don't having the amount of problems you seems to have doesn't mean they are playing with pro friends, no offense but the amount of problems you seems to have and remark in every post is very suspicious.

btw requiem cast window does more damage that delirium.

[Alaeacus]

you asume to much, ppl playing DRK better that you and don't having the amount of problems you seems to have doesn't mean they are playing with pro friendss

Except, I never said they were all "Pro". I literally said most people play in a dedicated friend group, and that DRK is amazing in mid to high-level groups. "Mid" does not equal "Pro". See my quoted text below, literally taken from the post you are directly replying to. Also, every poll ever conducted on Reddit and the forums say the vast majority of people group with their FC or friends on a regular basis. People playing this game solo, only pugging content are the minority. But thanks for turning my argument into something I did not say.

DRK is absolutely, hands-down amazing in a great party that works together and all are mid to high-level players.

The majority of people in this thread only play with friends or a dedicated group (often end-game Static).

no offense but the amount of problems you seems to have and remark in every post is very suspicious.

Two threads about DRK today and one thread a month ago is suspicious?!? I'll keep that in mind next time. :rolls eyes: I enjoy giving my opinion on comparing PLD vs DRK. Very few other posts in this forum interest me. That's not suspicious at all. Not everybody is here to pad their post count on as many threads as possible.

btw requiem cast window does more damage that delirium.

Nice! Even more reason to choose PLD over DRK.

[John_Milter]

you asume to much, ppl playing DRK better that you and don't having the amount of problems you seems to have doesn't mean they are playing with pro friends, no offense but the amount of problems you seems to have and remark in every post is very suspicious.

btw requiem cast window does more damage that delirium.

people already say dark knight has a low skill ceiling,

tbh, i dont think its possible to be good at dark knight or any other tank thats not paladin, its either ur really good BUT ur class is easy so ur actually not, or your really bad BUT the class is not good so its not ur fault like if these forums are anything to go by its not possible 2 b a good tank

[shao32]

snip

look the thing is tanks have to much mitigation right now, DRK don't fall behind anyone, with rampart 20s, shadow wall 15s, arm's lenght 6/15s, reprisal 10s and TBN negating a good chung of damage every 15s it's imposible to strugle even with bad healers and i can tell you by my experience with pugs since i meet every type of healer in this game over 6 years playing that DRK don't strugle with bad players if you know what are you doing even on mass pulling.

what i mean with supicious is by what you tell us you seems to don't know how to play properly and i don't telling you this to criticize you in a bad way bcs you are claiming DRK is bad with lower skill level partys when is not true and i can tell you DRK is a wall if you play it properly something is not hard to do.

it's fine to have you own opinion but that doesn't mean a job or whatever is bad bcs you own experience and say the rest of the players here play with friends bcs they seems to don't have you problems, meaby it's time to start thinking that you don't play DRK properly instead of say things like this:

OP, take all opinions here (including mine) with a grain of salt. The majority of people in this thread only play with friends or a dedicated group (often end-game Static). They are giving you their biased opinion from that viewpoint of always playing in a coordinated, well-honed party. Very few people on this forum will be giving you an opinion based on being in crappy PUG roulette groups which, if you're anything like me, will be the vast majority of your groups.

people already say dark knight has a low skill ceiling,

tbh, i dont think its possible to be good at dark knight or any other tank thats not paladin, its either ur really good BUT ur class is easy so ur actually not, or your really bad BUT the class is not good so its not ur fault like if these forums are anything to go by its not possible 2 b a good tank

DRK is a low skill ceiling job, with WAR are the most brain deads jobs of the game when you understand how to play them.

if you do you dps rotation and aoe rotatio + manage properly you defensive kit and play the boss mechanics properly you are a good tank on my diccionary, wipes don't make you a bad tank since can happen for many reasons and save a run doenst make you a good tank unless you are doing the first thing i say for me.

[Danelo]

If I'm being honest, DRK doesn't seem to be in a bad place like in SB. While players who are new to DRK, and others, may love it, I just can't get there. I'm nostalgic for a return to HW DRK style play with an AoE loop reminiscent of SB. The skill ceiling is too low. There is no real joy in "getting it right" bcs it's so easy. I don't think the removal of tank stance really made a huge difference in that. There is no depth.

Side note that mitigation is great, and drk has a chunk of it, but does the extra mitigation make a difference in most cases? May give the healers and extra cd to dps, but when the healers can easily cover for the other tanks' lesser level of mitigation I'm left scratching my head and wondering what's the point? To give healers an extra CD to dps? Maybe that feels rewarding for some. The amount of mitigation drk can put forward above the amount the other tanks can is not on par with the amount of self sustain it lacks compared to other tanks.

I'm sure someone can point to a general circumstance it is worth it but on the whole the disparity seems off.

[Falar]

If I'm being honest, DRK doesn't seem to be in a bad place like in SB. While players who are new to DRK, and others, may love it, I just can't get there. I'm nostalgic for a return to HW DRK style play with an AoE loop reminiscent of SB. The skill ceiling is too low. There is no real joy in "getting it right" bcs it's so easy. I don't think the removal of tank stance really made a huge difference in that. There is no depth.

Side note that mitigation is great, and drk has a chunk of it, but does the extra mitigation make a difference in most cases? May give the healers and extra cd to dps, but when the healers can easily cover for the other tanks' lesser level of mitigation I'm left scratching my head and wondering what's the point? To give healers an extra CD to dps? Maybe that feels rewarding for some. The amount of mitigation drk can put forward above the amount the other tanks can is not on par with the amount of self sustain it lacks compared to other tanks.

I'm sure someone can point to a general circumstance it is worth it but on the whole the disparity seems off.

I miss HW so much.

Parries leading to low blow and reprisal procs, the sound of reprisal
DA-DD and DA-DP for evasion on hero pulls
Blood Price being great (it sucked in SB)
Pulling wall to wall in every dungeon
Scourge
Our other combos, loved the visuals of Delirium
Spamming AD

Salted earth is so weak now it feels like a waste of time

[Dragonkat]

Is DRK terrible? No, at least if you enjoy being a one trick pony with TBN and the rest of it's kit having been nerfed to oblivion. RIP AD and Quietus spam, and screw you delirium rework.

Is it a shadow of what it was and not worth the time to play anymore too? Yep