How would people feel if they took positional requirements away?

[Shurrikhan]

Your hilariously uneven comparisons aside, you can actually make an argument for ditching combos as well.

Like positionals, combos are a somewhat outdated concept. They're designed to keep old abilities relevant forever, which was fine at 50 and even 60, but at this point is just contributing to the ability bloat. Personally I'd be thrilled if melees moved away from combos and super strict rotations and into more of a priority/proc system like the ranged jobs have.

Can I keep positionals, which merely keep movement keys in use more frequently, and the more varied animations supplied by having all those different weaponskills, and just ditch spending 3-5 keys at a time for a single actual action/decision (what we here call... "combos")? Pretty please?

[Brightamethyst]

Yeah. Positional requirements should definitely be disabled in the open world (PotD/HoH/Eureka style.)

[Hash_Browns]

Yeah. Positional requirements should definitely be disabled in the open world (PotD/HoH/Eureka style.)

All mobs in Eureka do not require positionals already, not sure about HoH or PotD though.

[Shurrikhan]

Yeah. Positional requirements should definitely be disabled in the open world (PotD/HoH/Eureka style.)

Again, though, if the issue is just that there's literally no cap on enemy turning speeds outside of two fights in the entire game (NieR tanks) or prescribed spinning mechanics (NumberBot in SB)... why don't we just... give more than two mobs in the entire game something resembling natural turning movement? Pace it. Make a resource of it. Keep it simple but limit spin-to-win and the like. Whatever it takes. You can make something enjoyable (at least for those who would ever enjoy melee) out of solo positioning rather than just taking yet another mechanic behind the shed just because the implementation even hasn't yet had even two cents of effort placed into it.

All mobs in Eureka do not require positionals already, not sure about HoH or PotD though.

They don't. That's why they were used as an examples of places where positionals are invalidated.

[ElazulHP]

I don't really melee dps often and while I'd love to see positional requirements gone, it's a slippery slope. Eventually, all jobs will lose complexity or they'll add something in it's place that makes even less sense and is more annoying.

[Brightamethyst]

why don't we just... give more than two mobs in the entire game something resembling natural turning movement? Pace it. Make a resource of it. Keep it simple but limit spin-to-win and the like. Whatever it takes. You can make something enjoyable (at least for those who would ever enjoy melee) out of solo positioning rather than just taking yet another mechanic behind the shed just because the implementation even hasn't yet had even two cents of effort placed into it.

Cost vs value. Redesigning every open world mob just to solve a non-problem isn't worth the dev time.

[Muchmidget]

I wouldn't mind positionals being removed for some classes, or even just altered so they'd stay in one spot for their bonus damage. Only having to worry about being in the back was one of the draws of Ninja for me back when it first released.
Having every single melee job deal with both back and flank positional skills adds a bit to the homogenization of the jobs imho. I'd rather deal with more interesting skillset interactions than just moving 2 inches to the left/right every so often.

[Shurrikhan]

Cost vs value. Redesigning every open world mob just to solve a non-problem isn't worth the dev time.

Okay, then... what is? Where do we draw the line on what we cut when the game is already so "streamlined" (read: gutted and/or stuck in a rut), apart from all its obvious actual QoL issues?

Critical strikes go through blocks, which cause Shelltron and Camouflage to be weaker than they should be. Players are complaining. Do you...

• Remove all skills that increase Block or Parry chance, or...
• Change the damage calculation sequence so Crits are not mutually exclusive with Blocks and Parries, reopening options for block and parry buffs?

Sidecontent produced thus far has not appealed to everyone (largely due to being barebone in their basic systems and gameplay loops). Players are complaining. Do you...

• Never again make side-content, or...
• Put in enough resources next time so that it can appeal to more people?

Dungeons quickly become obsolete or go unused by sections of the community. Players are complaining. Do you...

• Vastly limit dungeons' place in the game from here out because of the current flaws above, or...
• Put in the work to expand their longevity and enjoyability?

There will always be a section of jobs that perform better than others. Players are complaining. Do you...

• Stop making new jobs because they're bound to be initially imbalanced and stop upgrading jobs because that could cause imbalance or...
• Put in the work to balance them, including their distinctions?

In this game, once something's removed, it generally never comes back, especially if it includes a smidgen of inconvenience that might trigger someone. Let's keep that precedent in mind before we're so quick to cut something from the game, presumably forever.

Just imagine how many "Why do I have to deal with this mechanic [positionals] when I go into dungeons?!" are bound to pop up. By the time you take positionals from the entire open world, you've made it obvious that it's a gimmick (which, is good), but in a way that demands the mechanic's removal more so than it's being fixed, despite that fixing the issue behind positioning's frustrations in solo play (a lack of mob scripting controlling turning speed or other forms of more natural movement) could have benefits elsewhere.

[Tyssyn]

I am currently leveling all melee classes (I'm odd, I do 5 levels, go to the next class catch up, go to the next), and I have trouble with positionals. Mostly because I can't remember what ability needs what position, so I just tend to not bother. Especially in dungeons where the tank moves around a LOT. It's frustrating enough as a ninja (mudras, oh how I struggle with remembering what buttons to push for which one)…. oh tank has stopped, I can drop doton… boom I drop it, tank runs to grab the next bunch ::facepaws as I swear under my breath:: Oddly, other than struggling to remember the mudras - I pull up a guide that lists them all since I have dual screens, but it makes me a little slow - I do like ninja... Hellfrog makes me laugh, I want a hellfrog mount and minion!

[Brightamethyst]

mudras, oh how I struggle with remembering what buttons to push for which one

The trick to the 3-step mudras is remembering that the first two buttons don't matter. Only the last one matters. Forget about remembering that Chi>Ten>Jin and Ten>Chi>Jin = Suiton, etc. All you need to know is Jin = Suiton. It doesn't matter which order you press the other two buttons. As long as you end with Jin, you get Suiton.