Did people even ask for changes to AST, like they do / did for MNK and MCH?

[Reyna_Balmore]

I've been playing since....I don't know, when we could put points into stats and had to lvl two jobs to get our next job advancement. I've been on and off since then and haven't started seriously playing until 4.2ish.

During my time in 4.x, I've picked up AST and loved how the class played. People who didn't like it seem to just migrate over to SCH or WHM. As you can tell from my post activity, I've been mainly lurking around and never seen any uproars (possibly a few) regarding people asking for any changes to AST.

Looking at how much some people are liking the changes made to WHM, could all three classes have worked and been liked if SCH and AST were never changed (skills taken away / mini rework) in 5.x?

Would having a 4.x AST and SCH, with 5.x WHM have been desirable and functional today?

[althenawhm]

Would having a 4.x AST and SCH, with 5.x WHM have been desirable and functional today?

I think people over all would be pretty happy with that.
Still want Aero 3 back and Fluid Aura gone though.

[Reyna_Balmore]

I think people over all would be pretty happy with that.
Still want Aero 3 back and Fluid Aura gone though.

I wish there would be some sort of poll or discussion with the balance team and community before such changes are made. Just so they could see the positive or negative feedback and let the hardcore players play with the numbers, to see if the overall changes are good or bad.

[Recon1o6]

Good grief if this happened the healer shortage would be over in an instant. The 3 changes people wanted on AST was to change spire into something more useful (which they needed to do anyway with tp removal), nerf balance to 10 or 15% and bring gravity in line with the other spell cast times.

The new AST actions are pretty good for the most part and they would synergise wonderfully with the old system (though horoscope and divination should get tweaks)

[Reyna_Balmore]

Good grief if this happened the healer shortage would be over in an instant. The 3 changes people wanted on AST was to change spire into something more useful (which they needed to do anyway with tp removal), nerf balance to 10 or 15% and bring gravity in line with the other spell cast times.

The new AST actions are pretty good for the most part and they would synergise wonderfully with the old system (though horoscope and divination should get tweaks)

When they mentioned the removal of TP and changes to MP, I though the only thing they would change were both the Spire and Ewer card. Having reworking the whole entire card system instead of making those two "simple" changes, was a head scratcher.

It literally seems like the "balance" team or whoever idea it was to make the changes, have quite a disconnect with the healing community. They saw a "problem" and when in there really wasn't one to begin with, just minor changes to adjust to the removal TP and changes to MP were needed.

[Risvertasashi]

Would having a 4.x AST and SCH, with 5.x WHM have been desirable and functional today?

I think this is probably what 6.0 will look like. WHM will probably stay pretty close to what it is, while my money is on AST and SCH becoming more like their 4.x versions.

[Reyna_Balmore]

I think this is probably what 6.0 will look like. WHM will probably stay pretty close to what it is, while my money is on AST and SCH becoming more like their 4.x versions.

I like the optimism, but do they have a track record of admitting they were wrong on a rework and reverting it back? Especially on a major scale, such as the the current AST card system?

I think they may be to proud to make such a change and they may continue to butcher the class until it's left behind when a possible 4th healer class comes along.

[Risvertasashi]

I like the optimism, but do they have a track record of admitting they were wrong on a rework and reverting it back? Especially on a major scale, such as the the current AST card system?

I think they may be to proud to make such a change and they may continue to butcher the class until it's left behind when a possible 4th healer class comes along.

Yes, they do.

My favorite go to example is Bard. I got into bard right towards the end of ARR, when it was pretty good and pretty fun. Then heavensward dropped. Oops. As the expac went on, people on the forums just went "git gud and adapt" and fans of the class lost more and more hope. But come Stormblood they - thankfully - completely ditched the "bard mage" concept. And both bringing the concept about and then abolishing it again pretty much completely changed how the job worked and played.

With the enormous amount of feedback on AST cards, I don't think there's any doubt at all that the current system is a dead card walking for 6.0. Of course, I do understand waiting for the next expac is painful. WHM is the healer I play most and we just got out of Stormblood which was a hellish time for the job. But then, WHM serves as another example. SE was told many, many times what a terrible, horrible system lillies are, and in Shadowbringers it was thoroughly reworked and overhauled.

Back to AST cards again, the dev team already apologized in one of the earlier... interviews or LLs? I don't remember which exactly. They know people don't like it. Chances are they're already planning a redesign. It's just a matter waiting though again, I do relate to how waiting can be painful.

[Reyna_Balmore]

Yes, they do.

My favorite go to example is Bard. I got into bard right towards the end of ARR, when it was pretty good and pretty fun. Then heavensward dropped. Oops. But come Stormblood they - thankfully - completely ditched the "bard mage" concept.

With the enormous amount of feedback on AST cards, I don't think there's any doubt at all that the current system is a dead card walking for 6.0. Of course, I do understand waiting for the next expac is painful. WHM is the healer I play most and we just got out of Stormblood which was a hellish time for the job. But then, WHM serves as another example. SE was told many, many times what a terrible, horrible system lillies are, and in Shadowbringers it was thoroughly reworked and overhauled.

Back to AST cards again, the dev team already apologized in one of the earlier... interviews or LLs? I don't remember which exactly. They know people don't like it. Chances are they're already planning a redesign. It's just a matter waiting though again, I do relate to how waiting can be painful.

THAT is excellent news, now I can't wait for 6.0 to drop!

[Recon1o6]

It literally seems like the "balance" team or whoever idea it was to make the changes, have quite a disconnect with the healing community

More like they just have a disconnect with the playerbase as a whole, but especially healers its most prominent given they never answer urgent questions and the huge threads we have since 2 expansions in a row all 3 got shafted in someway majorly.
Look at how dark knight, summoner and monk have been ignored as well, the devs have a massive disconnect because they are focusing too much on "balance" and homogenisation for accessability rather than diversifying and improving skillsets and identities

The devs really need to implement some sort of in game feedback, because at this rate their experimentation and dumbing down is going to cause more problems than they can ignore, particularly when there are lots of other big issues that are riling players that haven't been answered. The playerbase is gaining new players but at this rate, all they will be doing is replacing long time fans who have become too disgruntled