Did people even ask for changes to AST, like they do / did for MNK and MCH?

[Risvertasashi]

Would having a 4.x AST and SCH, with 5.x WHM have been desirable and functional today?

I think this is probably what 6.0 will look like. WHM will probably stay pretty close to what it is, while my money is on AST and SCH becoming more like their 4.x versions.

[Reyna_Balmore]

I think this is probably what 6.0 will look like. WHM will probably stay pretty close to what it is, while my money is on AST and SCH becoming more like their 4.x versions.

I like the optimism, but do they have a track record of admitting they were wrong on a rework and reverting it back? Especially on a major scale, such as the the current AST card system?

I think they may be to proud to make such a change and they may continue to butcher the class until it's left behind when a possible 4th healer class comes along.

[Risvertasashi]

I like the optimism, but do they have a track record of admitting they were wrong on a rework and reverting it back? Especially on a major scale, such as the the current AST card system?

I think they may be to proud to make such a change and they may continue to butcher the class until it's left behind when a possible 4th healer class comes along.

Yes, they do.

My favorite go to example is Bard. I got into bard right towards the end of ARR, when it was pretty good and pretty fun. Then heavensward dropped. Oops. As the expac went on, people on the forums just went "git gud and adapt" and fans of the class lost more and more hope. But come Stormblood they - thankfully - completely ditched the "bard mage" concept. And both bringing the concept about and then abolishing it again pretty much completely changed how the job worked and played.

With the enormous amount of feedback on AST cards, I don't think there's any doubt at all that the current system is a dead card walking for 6.0. Of course, I do understand waiting for the next expac is painful. WHM is the healer I play most and we just got out of Stormblood which was a hellish time for the job. But then, WHM serves as another example. SE was told many, many times what a terrible, horrible system lillies are, and in Shadowbringers it was thoroughly reworked and overhauled.

Back to AST cards again, the dev team already apologized in one of the earlier... interviews or LLs? I don't remember which exactly. They know people don't like it. Chances are they're already planning a redesign. It's just a matter waiting though again, I do relate to how waiting can be painful.

[Reyna_Balmore]

Yes, they do.

My favorite go to example is Bard. I got into bard right towards the end of ARR, when it was pretty good and pretty fun. Then heavensward dropped. Oops. But come Stormblood they - thankfully - completely ditched the "bard mage" concept.

With the enormous amount of feedback on AST cards, I don't think there's any doubt at all that the current system is a dead card walking for 6.0. Of course, I do understand waiting for the next expac is painful. WHM is the healer I play most and we just got out of Stormblood which was a hellish time for the job. But then, WHM serves as another example. SE was told many, many times what a terrible, horrible system lillies are, and in Shadowbringers it was thoroughly reworked and overhauled.

Back to AST cards again, the dev team already apologized in one of the earlier... interviews or LLs? I don't remember which exactly. They know people don't like it. Chances are they're already planning a redesign. It's just a matter waiting though again, I do relate to how waiting can be painful.

THAT is excellent news, now I can't wait for 6.0 to drop!

[Recon1o6]

Yes, they do.

My favorite go to example is Bard. I got into bard right towards the end of ARR, when it was pretty good and pretty fun. Then heavensward dropped. Oops. As the expac went on, people on the forums just went "git gud and adapt" and fans of the class lost more and more hope. But come Stormblood they - thankfully - completely ditched the "bard mage" concept. And both bringing the concept about and then abolishing it again pretty much completely changed how the job worked and played.

With the enormous amount of feedback on AST cards, I don't think there's any doubt at all that the current system is a dead card walking for 6.0. Of course, I do understand waiting for the next expac is painful. WHM is the healer I play most and we just got out of Stormblood which was a hellish time for the job. But then, WHM serves as another example. SE was told many, many times what a terrible, horrible system lillies are, and in Shadowbringers it was thoroughly reworked and overhauled.

Back to AST cards again, the dev team already apologized in one of the earlier... interviews or LLs? I don't remember which exactly. They know people don't like it. Chances are they're already planning a redesign. It's just a matter waiting though again, I do relate to how waiting can be painful.

The problem here is that they have been fairly inconsistent with addressing some classes. Bard seems to be a favourite of the devs. They got a pretense of support back in 5.1 (2% buff? you can't even see that without a 3rd party tool) and they got their bowmage scrapped in Stormblood
Monk has had long standing issues since 2.0. They haven't really acquired anything since 3.0 as all the new skills seem to be replacements of the ones they lost over the years. (elixir field an ogcd that hits enemies around? that sounds familiar...)
Dark knight is another example, it used to be high skill class with lots of debuffs and altering properties of your attacks with dark arts. Two expansions later and we're a clone of warrior except with Fray instead of healing)

And the cards mentioned? that particular interview was 5.05, they had seen the feedback but they would not be changing the cards or adding mp back to noct, but they did apologise for how terrible AST's potencies were at launch. (IE unplayable)

[Risvertasashi]

The problem here is that they have been fairly inconsistent with addressing some classes. Bard seems to be a favourite of the devs. They got a pretense of support back in 5.1 (2% buff? you can't even see that without a 3rd party tool) and they got their bowmage scrapped in Stormblood
Monk has had long standing issues since 2.0. They haven't really acquired anything since 3.0 as all the new skills seem to be replacements of the ones they lost over the years. (elixir field an ogcd that hits enemies around? that sounds familiar...)
Dark knight is another example, it used to be high skill class with lots of debuffs and altering properties of your attacks with dark arts. Two expansions later and we're a clone of warrior except with Fray instead of healing)

And the cards mentioned? that particular interview was 5.05, they had seen the feedback but they would not be changing the cards or adding mp back to noct, but they did apologise for how terrible AST's potencies were at launch. (IE unplayable)

So, look. I get it.

Bard is another class I like. 5.1 took away about 2k personal DPS while only giving me about 700 DPS back in raid buffs - though I'm not a particularly high end bard player and I hardly raid on it so that may be a factor. In any case, I hate it. I've hated other changes in the past too.

I'm simply making observations from how SE has acted in the past. When something like AST cards get this (high) level of negative feedback, in the past SE overhauls it for the next expansion, so I think that's most likely what will happen here. In the interim, you are right, typically they only make relatively minor changes - duration, potency, cooldown, maaaybe adding an ability or a slight mechanic change.

It's also not impossible they might overhaul it before 6.0, but they've never done something like that before. The pattern is such changes come with expac launches. It's also possible they could ignore it completely for 6.0, but that also doesn't fit SE's established modus operandi.

[Rai_Takara]

Yes, they do.

My favorite go to example is Bard. I got into bard right towards the end of ARR, when it was pretty good and pretty fun. Then heavensward dropped. Oops. As the expac went on, people on the forums just went "git gud and adapt" and fans of the class lost more and more hope. But come Stormblood they - thankfully - completely ditched the "bard mage" concept. And both bringing the concept about and then abolishing it again pretty much completely changed how the job worked and played.

With the enormous amount of feedback on AST cards, I don't think there's any doubt at all that the current system is a dead card walking for 6.0. Of course, I do understand waiting for the next expac is painful. WHM is the healer I play most and we just got out of Stormblood which was a hellish time for the job. But then, WHM serves as another example. SE was told many, many times what a terrible, horrible system lillies are, and in Shadowbringers it was thoroughly reworked and overhauled.

Back to AST cards again, the dev team already apologized in one of the earlier... interviews or LLs? I don't remember which exactly. They know people don't like it. Chances are they're already planning a redesign. It's just a matter waiting though again, I do relate to how waiting can be painful.

That being said, I think there's a pretty close to zero chance we'll see AST cards similar to 3.x/4.x. Personally, I think the current AST is setup nicely for the next expansion where they can expand upon the cards and seal system. Game has gone past the system of RNG damage buffs and it can no longer be tolerated in this day and age.

[Gravagar]

That being said, I think there's a pretty close to zero chance we'll see AST cards similar to 3.x/4.x. Personally, I think the current AST is setup nicely for the next expansion where they can expand upon the cards and seal system. Game has gone past the system of RNG damage buffs and it can no longer be tolerated in this day and age.

I do kinda agree. I'm viewing any card / AST changes as just bandaids to hold us over till the next expansion.


It sucks that we're going to have to wait a full year-plus to have a fully-baked system, and by no means would I complain if we got a reversion... but at the same time, I'd love for them to come up with some wild addition that makes everybody say "yo, this new system is DOPE." I'm still very concerned about the people doing the AST revamps and the higher-up direction they're being given... If nothing changes, the results might wind up being similar.