PLDs: You have Clemency for a reason.

[Nedkel]

People claiming that tank should have to heal himself probably never played the tank on their own.

Tanks job is dynamic and fast in dungeons especially with big pulls, there is stuff to manage like directing mobs in proper way so they dont cleave the rest of the team, dodging aoes (so you wont die instantly), manage deffensive cooldowns, do the dps rotation properly and in point.

Sorry but this is straight up disrespectful to the tank that does his job properly to expect from him to read healers mind and do healers own job that is literally the slowest job from all the classes in the game especially if the healer is only healing and not doing extra dps.

[Maeka]

People claiming that tank should have to heal himself probably never played the tank on their own.

Tanks job is dynamic and fast in dungeons especially with big pulls, there is stuff to manage like directing mobs in proper way so they dont cleave the rest of the team, dodging aoes (so you wont die instantly), manage deffensive cooldowns, do the dps rotation properly and in point.

Sorry but this is straight up disrespectful to the tank that does his job properly to expect from him to read your mind and do your own job that is literally the slowest job from all the classes in the game if you just heal and do not do dps.

.....and people who say *that* are people who likely have not played healer, because they haven't experienced the heart pounding stress of some tank that grabs 3 groups of mobs who goes from 100% down to 30% in the time it takes you to cast two hard-casted spells, knowing that if he dies, the whole group is going to be following him right after.

Swiftcast+Raise in that situation only lets the tank eat yet another death because by the time he gets on his feet the last person is dropping dead and then the tank dies immediately again, for the 2nd time.

EDIT: And/or they've never played AST, lol.

[WhyAmIHere]

I guess I just don't like this whole "gotta pull wall to wall all the time" mentality the playerbase seems to have taken these days, and would wish that some people would just slow down sometimes. Heck sometimes it's hard to speak up because the moment Duty Commenced appears, there's the sprint icon next to the tank's name and if I had stopped to type something the tank would *really* be dead, lol.

&

Mind telling me how I'm supposed to actually type if the tank mashes sprint the very moment the circle goes down before I even have time to summon Eos? That's getting to be a regular thing. "Summon Eos....crapcrapcrap tank is already sprinting, gonna be one of THOSE kind of dungeons, gaaaaaaaaaaah"

I remember back in Stormblood, you had a few tanks now and then taking off before Protect was cast... now we got tanks who love taking off like they have jetpacks before you even summon Eos.

Let them. Let the tank die. If they are so inept as to not wait for the healer to indicate they're ready, they're the ones failing. Let. The. Inept. Tank. Die. If they get upset, let them. They messed up. One of the first things any tank should be taught is "trust your healer." If your healer aint ready, then don't just rush ahead without them and hope they'll keep up. Let the tank die.

If I'm running a dungeon and the tank rushes off ahead? I let them. I summon my fairy, I don't use sprint, I just run. When I catch up I throw a swift-Adlo, pop a lustrate, Whispering Dawn, and continue about my day.
You're the healer. Act like it. Be the healer who isn't going to take nonsense from rando tanks. Let them know you dictate their lives and the success of a dungeon just as much as they do.

[Mavrias]

I do in fact look for ways I could have put out more healing, when I'm not all flustered and such when they decide to just go running to the first wall right off the bat.

I moved the two faerie buttons around to be a bit easier to push, for example. They never really seemed like they did that much but people say they do so I'll try it next time I'm in a higher level dungeon as SCH. For example.

And yes, we hope that people would do reasonable things, but eh.

I guess I just don't like this whole "gotta pull wall to wall all the time" mentality the playerbase seems to have taken these days, and would wish that some people would just slow down sometimes. Heck sometimes it's hard to speak up because the moment Duty Commenced appears, there's the sprint icon next to the tank's name and if I had stopped to type something the tank would *really* be dead, lol.



Personally, if I was in the middle of typing a response and had to AFK.... upon returning, I'd cut what I had written so that it gets saved to the clipboard, refresh the thread, and read whatever was said and then paste into the reply box and reply to anything else that was said.

Personally. *shrug*

I got PLD to Lv70 waaaay back in Stormblood. Back then, I was in a frenzy to get all of my jobs levelled up, because I was tired of inventory spam. So I got PLD to 70, mained WHM, and worked on leveling other jobs when I wasn't keeping WHM gear current. So yes, I got PLD to 70 and barely touched it for the longest time.

But I do pay attention to what I see tanks doing when I've the time to, and I've seen plenty of hard-casted Holy Circles and I misread what the tooltip says on the Job Guide. And again, they could have set that up better, to be easier to understand, but whatever.

That's great. You do you.

People who do PLD/ tanking in general are literally telling you how the skill works, the reasoning behind holy circle > clemency, the situations in which you should use clemency, about tank cooldown management, and the reasoning behind doing large pulls. People who do SCH/ healing in general are telling you ways to improve (to help you), why you shouldn't expect clemency or vercure, faerie management, the importance of sprint, the importance of communication, advice on how to not get flustered and healing cooldown usage.

Perhaps you should consider their points and ask further questions instead of arguing with them about the potency of skills you don't know about and haven't used. Or take the given advice of asking your tank to start slow instead of playing the martyr and bemoaning the possibility of them maybe leaving. You've done a lot of insulting instead of listening in this thread.

[Maeka]

You've done a lot of insulting instead of listening in this thread.

.... mostly in response to the plethora of people being rather ... shall I say... rude and belittling from the get-go?

I will admit I posted the first post in a bit of frustration and anger in running into yet another speedrunner that mashes sprint out of the gate before I'm even ready (and yes, I do think I'm gonna start letting said tanks drop dead, that is actually a rather good suggestion), but after the initial few posts, there was still plenty of mudslinging in my direction.

Obviously I'm going to get annoyed and lash back with the same kind of junk that's being thrown at me.

It *IS* possible to give input without being rude about it.

Heck, HyominPark came into the thread... and she and I don't exactly see eye to eye on Healer DPS for example, we've sparred in the past on the forums, and even she provided her input in a nice reasonable way, and I even made sure I commented about her being quite reasonable, and not rude like some other people were.

[WhyAmIHere]

.... mostly in response to the plethora of people being rather ... shall I say... rude and belittling from the get-go?

I will admit I posted the first post in a bit of frustration and anger in running into yet another speedrunner that mashes sprint out of the gate before I'm even ready (and yes, I do think I'm gonna start letting said tanks drop dead, that is actually a rather good suggestion), but after the initial few posts, there was still plenty of mudslinging in my direction.

Obviously I'm going to get annoyed and lash back with the same kind of junk that's being thrown at me.

It *IS* possible to give input without being rude about it.

Not many people started off rude, but your continuance of referring to people using sprint as "speedrunners" is rude.
Yes your post started vitriolic. People tried to de-escalate the situation and did so by providing insight. It then devolved into you playing the martyr like you're the one being wronged in a multiplayer game because people wouldn't acquiesce to you when you refused to communicate your need of assistance.
*People are lashing out because YOU started to respond to feedback and constructive criticism poorly. Don't get that twisted.

I'ma warn you now. You just let a tank die because he used sprint and you weren't ready will get you vote-kicked really quick. Might even garner you being reported for griefing. My point is there's nothing wrong with sprint. If the tank pulls wall to wall, uses no CDs, and you cant keep up? Explain calmly "I am still learning / getting used to SCH, please go a bit slower." If they get uppity? If they continue to do the same thing after you say you need help? Well... you can initiate a vote dismiss as well after 5 minutes. :^)

[Mavrias]

.... mostly in response to the plethora of people being rather ... shall I say... rude and belittling from the get-go?

I will admit I posted the first post in a bit of frustration and anger in running into yet another speedrunner that mashes sprint out of the gate before I'm even ready (and yes, I do think I'm gonna start letting said tanks drop dead, that is actually a rather good suggestion), but after the initial few posts, there was still plenty of mudslinging in my direction.

Obviously I'm going to get annoyed and lash back with the same kind of junk that's being thrown at me.

It *IS* possible to give input without being rude about it.

Heck, HyominPark came into the thread... and she and I don't exactly see eye to eye on Healer DPS for example, we've sparred in the past on the forums, and even she provided her input in a nice reasonable way, and I even made sure I commented about her being quite reasonable, and not rude like some other people were.

things you don't want to hear are not necessarily rude and belittling. yes, people were calling you bad at SCH. they also pointed out that 3 pulls are indeed easily manageable as a scholar and gave you examples of skills you could have used to help yourself. that's not belittling. its just not sugarcoated.

people also suggested you asking the tank to slow down and you went on a tangent about how you shouldn't have to "beg speedrunners to slow down." It ain't all other people.

[Maeka]

I'ma warn you now. You just let a tank die because he used sprint and you weren't ready will get you vote-kicked really quick. Might even garner you being reported for griefing. My point is there's nothing wrong with sprint. If the tank pulls wall to wall, uses no CDs, and you cant keep up? Explain calmly "I am still learning / getting used to SCH, please go a bit slower." If they get uppity? If they continue to do the same thing after you say you need help? Well... you can initiate a vote dismiss as well after 5 minutes. :^)

I'm talking about things like hitting Sprint before a SCH even summons Eos.

And not like... just standing there and doing nothing, more like "I'm going to stand here and cast Eos and if you run 50 feet ahead of me, oh well. Maybe you shoulda waited for me to cast Eos."

I have my doubts that casting Eos while the tank sprints away is "Griefing".

[Billythepancake]

I mean, this is simple stuff mates. Should a PLD NEED to clemency? No, they shouldn't, but if the healer is having a rough time and clearly struggling, then using it certainly helps. And a healer should never expect PLD to use clemency, again, it helps, and I'm certainly fine with a PLD using it, but I should never be in a situation where I need them to use it.

[WhyAmIHere]

I'm talking about things like hitting Sprint before a SCH even summons Eos.

Yup. I opened this pandora's box.

Using sprint before a SCH pet is summoned is fine.
If they're all the way in timbuktu and you're in the middle of typing something out, like you say "sec plz" before / as the walls drop then yes, they are in the wrong. But YOU NEED TO COMMUNICATE that you need a moment if you're not 100% ready.
If you summon your fairy and start moving that's usually the "OK I'm here and ready to go" to most people. My point is don't just let the tank die BECAUSE they pop sprint right out of the gate. Let them dig their own grave from not being a good tank.