Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Lauront]

Are people still coming up with this dumb "even a lala" argument? There is nothing in the lore to say female Viera or Au Ra are as physically strong as their male counterparts. Can they, through magical augmentation (e.g. class/job, materia, Echo etc.) potentially match one? Maybe. But it doesn't come free. Resource limitations are a thing.

I'd like to see a citation of any lore stating that female Viera are equivalent to the males in raw physical strength.

[Tabbs]

Are people still coming up with this dumb "even a lala" argument?

I think Alleo has a point, and I don't think its fair to call it a dumb argument when Lalafells can in fact be adept at shooting a bow or wielding an axe (and on top of that, its fiction). Look at Pipin.

But to your point: I don't think its a matter of physical strength. The Wandering Dramaturge does state that the female Viera are "as formidable as" their men when asked about Viera culture. That doesn't necessarily mean physical strength, but I don't see why it wouldn't if we're to assume that male and female Viera share a similar stature (and considering the Viis in Rak'tika are primarily seen using physical weapons and not magic, with exception).

To add on to Alleo's point, I don't think the one male Viis being good at archery is any indicator that he looks a certain way or has a certain build... no more than Pipin being adept with a large sword is an indicator of his size or build. Male Viis/Viera likely just practice archery more than any other form of combat given that they're known as silent defenders.

The women could likely learn to draw a bow with the same handiwork as the men, "they merely choose to devote their attention to the protection of their hearth and young" as the Dramaturge put it. It's likely not that the men are more biologically capable, their situation just asks that they put more work into being good at it.

[Theodric]

It'd be rather strange for the men to be exactly the same as the women given that they live completely different lifestyles. Though what little we do know about male viera paints them as being fierce and strong. No doubt that will have some influence over their appearance. Especially if Matsuno has an opportunity to put forward his input on the matter...which is likely to be the case if they're ever added to the game.

I doubt it's a coincidence that some of the same posters pushing for male viera to be short, androgynous and/or feminine are also the same posters who attempting to redefine the meaning of certain words.

[SturmChurro]

I doubt it's a coincidence that some of the same posters pushing for male viera to be short, androgynous and/or feminine are also the same posters who attempting to redefine the meaning of certain words.

Excuse me? A man can be big and buff AND have a fashion sense. Looking FIERCE! *snaps fingers*

[Senn]

I'd like to see a citation of any lore stating that female Viera are equivalent to the males in raw physical strength.

Was it ever stated that the females and males aren't equal in raw physical strength? If you think so, please post a citation.

"This, however, is not to discredit the martial prowess of female Viera. The women of the wood are as formidable as the men, and merely choose to devote their attention to the protection of their hearth and young. "
https://mirkemenagerie.tumblr.com/po...7699/the-viera

[Alleo]

Are people still coming up with this dumb "even a lala" argument? There is nothing in the lore to say female Viera or Au Ra are as physically strong as their male counterparts. Can they, through magical augmentation (e.g. class/job, materia, Echo etc.) potentially match one? Maybe. But it doesn't come free. Resource limitations are a thing.

I'd like to see a citation of any lore stating that female Viera are equivalent to the males in raw physical strength.

And is there one ingame that males are better in physical strenght?

Is there even one for Au Ra and that the females are weaker than the males? Its a fantasy game and the females are taking part in the exact same things as males do, we even have a pure female only tribe that is able to survive. Even if there are some magical reasons for certain races to be as strongh (and I am not sure if they are ever mentioned ingame) then this could perfectly fit with the Viera males too...there is nothing ingame that states that a male must be always stronger than the female either. They just need to be strongh enough to survive. And that can be done with lots of stealth too.

It'd be rather strange for the men to be exactly the same as the women given that they live completely different lifestyles. Though what little we do know about male viera paints them as being fierce and strong. No doubt that will have some influence over their appearance. Especially if Matsuno has an opportunity to put forward his input on the matter...which is likely to be the case if they're ever added to the game.

I doubt it's a coincidence that some of the same posters pushing for male viera to be short, androgynous and/or feminine are also the same posters who attempting to redefine the meaning of certain words.

The word fierce that is not even there in most of the offical text in many lanugages? (And not even in the english one on the SE side) Also fierce can mean a lot of things as we learned the last few pages. It can simply mean being aggressive. I can tell you that my little dog (who was a hunting breed) was more fierce in quite some situations than a lot of the bigger ones.

Also what would you call Sadu? I see her as fierce. She is aggressive, bloodthirsty and can be quite hostile if she needs to be. Yet she is not looking the part.

This is a fantasy game. And I dont see how there is anything wrong with people pointing out how they would have wanted their viera...it wont change how SE wants it. But as long as there are no ingame FF14 descriptions or the males being finally there, you cant just point out how they are hijacking something...no its simply their idea...and it should not be a problem to voice that opinion in this thread. They are no hijacking anything more than those that want really buff guys.

[Lauront]

It's a fantasy game, but only the very worst ones, when it comes to world-building, eschew having an internal logic as to why things work the way they do or are as they are. SE has gone to the efforts of differentiating the races (e.g. Lalafell are noted as physically weaker than other races), and yes, male Au Ra are stronger than the females in the absence of magic augmentation (hence why the Buduga engage in the strategy they do), which again, is not free and does not come without costly training. Not everyone is the WoL or an adventurer or a high ranking member of a wealthy city-state, with plenty of materia and magic equipment at their disposal. In the absence of such factors, differences between genders and races do exist in the setting and are factors in the decisions made.

Women simply partaking of the same activities as men will not mean they're as good at them as the males in and of itself. It just means they're partaking of the same activities.

The fact that the races differ physically implies they faced different evolutionary pressures and this factored into mate selection; Lalafell are specifically called out for being weaker than the other races. You can play dumb and try ignore this by bringing up red herrings and choosing to not process what factors into those, but it's not going to convince anyone outside of the echo chamber which is already in alignment with your desire for cutesy bunny bois. Their decision to specialise by having the males be solitary hunters defending the woods, whilst the females remain at home to protect the villages, means each gender is facing different challenges, and will affect their mating strategies over the course of their evolution.

Can SE just ignore all that and e.g. make them look soft and weak? Sure, but I doubt they will.

Was it ever stated that the females and males aren't equal in raw physical strength? If you think so, please post a citation.

"This, however, is not to discredit the martial prowess of female Viera. The women of the wood are as formidable as the men, and merely choose to devote their attention to the protection of their hearth and young. "
https://mirkemenagerie.tumblr.com/po...7699/the-viera

You used the word "strong", so I wanted to clarify what the exact quote was. As I thought, it refers to their prowess in more general terms.

[MitsukiKimura]

I can see Male Viera in the future. Female Hrothgar... that's gonna be a tough one.. I rather not think on it

[Theodric]

art by @FrischeNq on twitter

I still think Senn's suggestion, as quoted from the OP, is the best compromise. It's proven to be very popular within this very thread after all with multiple people having it in their signature.

It's not overly bulky, it resembles an adult and it's fairly masculine. Most importantly, it doesn't resemble a child - which we know Yoshi-P ruled out as a possibility.

[Lauront]

Yes, agreed.