PLDs: You have Clemency for a reason.

[Shurrikhan]

Semantics. My point still stands DRK has to choose between mitigation and DPS and no other tank has that problem at. all.

Nor does anyone else have such a ridiculously strong on-demand mitigation tool. It more than makes up for the incredibly few times it might be difficult to predict whether TBN will break but you'd also need what little mitigation it gives.

[VenKitsune]

If the PLD has to use clemency to survive a pull, 1 or more of 4 things could be happening.

The Tanks gear is not good enough
The tank is not rotating cooldowns.
The Healers gear is not good enough
The Healer is not healing as much as they are able.

Not a SINGLE dungeon, pull, or boss requires PLDs to use clemency. If PLDs dont need it in ultimate, they certainly dont need it in a pre-80 dungeon, or any dungeon for that matter.

A DRK and a GNB would have had passive HP Regeneration and probably wouldn't have gotten that low in the first place, and DRK also has Astral Drain, GNB has Aura.
A WAR has Equilibrium which I hope they were smart enough to properly time. And in a pinch, Thrill of Battle works too, even if for a second or two.

A huge part of PLD's survivability is Clemency and it is in their toolkit for a reason. WAR gets Rampart, and two other skills I can never remember the name of (the one that has counter attacks, and the other that doesn't). GNB and DRK both get HP regens (Souleater and Brutal Shell), along with Rampart and their other defensive skills.

PLD seems like it stands alone in that its main mitigation is a casted self-heal that nobody wants to use because it shares MP and a slot with a DPS spell and of course, we gotta go max DPS all the way, even in a leveling dungeon. How dare a PLD help the healer by using some of their survivability toolkit, right?

The tanks across the board were designed to be reasonably close to each other in survivability, but DRK, WAR, and GNB don't have the problem of having to share resources between mitigation and DPS. The mitigation buttons are oGCD and don't get in the way of your DPS, so those tanks tend to use them on a regular basis.

I'm sorry, but this is not true.

DRK would not use Soul eater in aoe situations, its a net loss, and even at full ilvl 470, at level 80, it heals for 8000~ HP at most, and that takes 3 GCDs. So that's 2.6k per GCD effective healing - Basically nothing. Brutal Shell isnt nearly as strong.
Aurora is 1200 potency over its full duration, in other words, a single clemency use. Same with Equilibrium. The difference? They can only be used a single time over 90~ seconds, or only about once per pull. It should not be a basis for why they're the same at all, and should not be something for you as a healer to lean on.

All tanks have a similar ammount of cooldowns and i'd actually argue that PLD has more, not including clemency.

PLD - Hallowed, Rampart, Sentinel, Sheltron, Passage of arms, Reprisal. (6 not including Clemency)
DRK - LD, TBN, Rampart, Shadow Wall, Reprisal, Dark mind. (6)
WAR - HG,RI, Rampart, Vengeance, Reprisal, Thrill of battle. (6, not including Equilibrium)
GNB - Super, HOS, Rampart, Nebula, Camo, Reprisal (6, again not including aurora)

So with that in mind...Celemency is an extra tool that is only really designed for extreme emergencies - Not as a necessity. Not once have i been objectively saved from a situation that would result in a KO by Equilibrium or Aurora, and those are instant, if they arent needed to save me, Clemency shouldnt be either. DRK doesnt even have anything similar to it.

Clemency - 1200 potency
Equilibrium - 1200 potency
Aurora - 1200 total potency
DRK - 0 because they have no equivalent skill.

So does that mean if that tank was a DRK, they'd die every time because they didnt use a skill they dont have?

[FirstnameLastname]

HUR DUR PLD don't use clemency because healers... BOOMM PALADIN IS DEAD, NICE DPS WHILE DEAD.

JUST USE CLEMENCY, IT'S JUST CASUAL CONTENT!

Thank you for the input.

[Hierro]

Semantics. My point still stands DRK has to choose between mitigation and DPS and no other tank has that problem at. all.

If you're not popping TBN, then you don't deserve the dps that comes with it! Also, WAR indeed has to choose whether to use vengeance for DPS with IR or mitigation for mechanics.

[WhyAmIHere]

Nor does anyone else have such a ridiculously strong on-demand mitigation tool. It more than makes up for the incredibly few times it might be difficult to predict whether TBN will break but you'd also need what little mitigation it gives.

Which i even addressed by saying that even IF it doesn't break, congrats you spared your healer 7s of worrying about your health.

If you're not popping TBN, then you don't deserve the dps that comes with it! Also, WAR indeed has to choose whether to use vengeance for DPS with IR or mitigation for mechanics.

Inaccurate for the sake of argument. Yes, Vengeance's "spike armor" effect is boosted whilst under the effect of IR. But that is nowhere NEAR the magnitude of "DPS -v- mitigation" as TBN.

[Karious]

Y'all seem to be going hard in the paint on op for no reason. As a tank I utilize every ability I have, but then again; I also tend to not do ridiculous asspulls and stress the healer out (as I play scholar as my second class and understand the stress of a bad tank.) So, idunno. Maybe the example in the first post should learn to tank.

[Maeka]

To reply to some people without quoting:

Yeah, I'm sure Recitation is awesome. Too bad I don't have it in Holminster Switch, aye? It's Lv74, the Level Cap for Holminster Switch happens to be Lv72. So yay? Yeah, I'm sure if I did have a guaranteed Critlo every 90 seconds, pulls would be a heck of a lot easier. Seems to me that skill should have been Lv70.

As to the stuff about DRK and TBN? I will admit that since TBN is Lv70 and that I got my DRK up from 69 to 71 on mostly Roulettes, I have not had much experience with TBN quite yet, and I was speaking about my experiences when I last tanked with it in the mid to high 60s.

To the guy claiming I don't play PLD, um, I did say my PLD is 73 and in fact, it was once my main. Yes, I know all tanks get Rampart and Reprisal, obviously, I was talking about buttons that some tanks have, that others don't. I obviously wouldn't be talking about buttons that all tanks have.

As for Clemency or Sheltron being the "Main" mitigation button, I am looking at the sheer mitigation strength of each button. Obviously Sheltron is good, 4 seconds of guaranteed blocking, which is -20% damage on each incoming hit, and that's awesome. It's basically another Rampart, but you can't keep it up full-time obviously as it takes 50 oath each. But either way, Clemency, especially crits, mitigates way more than 4 seconds of -20% damage.

As to my gear, I was *NOT* Level Sync'd in Holminster Switch with Not Upgraded Scaevan gear, with a crafted weapon. But that's irrelevant anyways, as there had been a wipe before that pull, and the tank decided not to cast Clemency when she was <25% for 5+ seconds after receiving two Adlo and a Tactics+Adlo in-between because I had literally nothing else to throw at her other than Fey Union, which I had forgotten in the flustered state of mind I was in.

[Yorumi]

As to my gear, I was *NOT* Level Sync'd in Holminster Switch with Not Upgraded Scaevan gear, with a crafted weapon. But that's irrelevant anyways, as there had been a wipe before that pull, and the tank decided not to cast Clemency when she was <25% for 5+ seconds after receiving two Adlo and a Tactics+Adlo in-between because I had literally nothing else to throw at her other than Fey Union, which I had forgotten in the flustered state of mind I was in.

Personally I think you should take a moment for some self reflection. It sounds an awful lot like you were pretty severely undergeared and wanted a pld to stop their threat and damage rotation to play main healer. Yes, the pld should have been more aware of the situation and probably wasn't the best tank. That said does it really make sense to run to the tank forums and start attacking tanks and specifically plds because you ran into one player who wasn't aware of the situation? When you pass the blame to everyone else and take no responsibility you're not going to make many friends. We love to convince ourselves that we're never the problem but rarely if ever in a bad situation is someone completely blameless. Showing a little humility, rather than constant finger pointing goes a long way.

[WhyAmIHere]

Yeah, I'm sure Recitation is awesome. Too bad I don't have it in Holminster Switch, aye? It's Lv74, the Level Cap for Holminster Switch happens to be Lv72. So yay? Yeah, I'm sure if I did have a guaranteed Critlo every 90 seconds, pulls would be a heck of a lot easier. Seems to me that skill should have been Lv70.

---

As to my gear, I was *NOT* Level Sync'd in Holminster Switch with Not Upgraded Scaevan gear, with a crafted weapon. But that's irrelevant anyways, as there had been a wipe before that pull, and the tank decided not to cast Clemency when she was <25% for 5+ seconds after receiving two Adlo and a Tactics+Adlo in-between because I had literally nothing else to throw at her other than Fey Union, which I had forgotten in the flustered state of mind I was in.

Holminster is capped at 73, actually, but that's moot. Still doesn't change that there's critical gameplay issues on your end if you are having an issue healing there and others are not.

K, you had regular scaeven head through feet, and i'm assuming accessories and a belt. Also going to assume you had the rakshasa or upgraded rakshasa book.
that should have been more than enough to handle healing Holminster, but yes it would have been easier had you had the upgraded scaeven gear. Holminster is set to 370, and the augmented scaeven would've put you at i400 roughly.
Know that for healers and tanks, gear matters more than if you were on a DPS. Healing output is increased, damage taken is reduced, obvious stuff. If you went into it with less-than-par equipment your skill needs to compensate for any areas your gear cannot cover you in gameplay.
I'd say take some time, farm poetics enough to get upgraded scaeven gear, and maintain decent gear all throughout your leveling process. Also try to remain as calm as you can. I know how it feels to get flustered after a wipe in dungeons as a healer, and yes it sucks. You just gotta be able to evaluate where your play was lacking and adjust accordingly.

Suffice to say: don't give up healing because of one tank that wasn't able to adjust to their party. Don't expect others to cater to you randomly. Accept and learn where you're knowledge is lacking, and strive to improve always. (And just as a tip that I used while leveling: Soil is good but until you get that regen from the trait at 78 keep it in your pocket for if you see the tank isn't mitigating enough/at all. Lustrate is good. Also spamming Adlo will make you OOM so fast, and Physick does cast faster than it. Until you're comfortable with all of your kit don't forget it exists. Just my 2 cents on how I got through learning SCH.)

[Alaeacus]

I use Clemency religiously. Some healer like it, and some healers complain. I don't care either way. I've solo finished the remainder life percentage on many bosses thanks to Clemency alone. This is a major reason why you will never see me tanking outside of Paladin.