PLDs: You have Clemency for a reason.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

that would be a clear sign of "I should clemency now because one small delay/crit is gonna end me".

Okay. Just one more question: What should they have done if they weren't a PLD but another tank without Clemency?

[Nedkel]

Pld should never been asked to use clemency, its bad habbit.
Sprint is essential when pulling it could drastically decrease dmg taken from mobs following a tank.
Holminster switch is hard dungeon and you should not expect it to be easy. Some mobs like bears hit more than boses.

[Maeka]

Okay. Just one more question: What should they have done if they weren't a PLD but another tank without Clemency?

A DRK and a GNB would have had passive HP Regeneration and probably wouldn't have gotten that low in the first place, and DRK also has Astral Drain, GNB has Aura.
A WAR has Equilibrium which I hope they were smart enough to properly time. And in a pinch, Thrill of Battle works too, even if for a second or two.

A huge part of PLD's survivability is Clemency and it is in their toolkit for a reason. WAR gets Rampart, and two other skills I can never remember the name of (the one that has counter attacks, and the other that doesn't). GNB and DRK both get HP regens (Souleater and Brutal Shell), along with Rampart and their other defensive skills.

PLD seems like it stands alone in that its main mitigation is a casted self-heal that nobody wants to use because it shares MP and a slot with a DPS spell and of course, we gotta go max DPS all the way, even in a leveling dungeon. How dare a PLD help the healer by using some of their survivability toolkit, right?

The tanks across the board were designed to be reasonably close to each other in survivability, but DRK, WAR, and GNB don't have the problem of having to share resources between mitigation and DPS. The mitigation buttons are oGCD and don't get in the way of your DPS, so those tanks tend to use them on a regular basis.

Pld should never been asked to use clemency, its bad habbit.
Sprint is essential when pulling it could drastically decrease dmg taken from mobs following a tank.
Holminster switch is hard dungeon and you should not expect it to be easy. Some mobs like bears hit more than boses.

Which, you know, maybe they shouldn't be pulling 3 groups with an unsynch'd SCH, knowing their good stuff is on VERY limited basis, with an average of 1 ability per 20 seconds if the dungeon is that difficult compared to other dungeons? Maybe the pulls should be a bit smaller with an unsync'd healer?

I am not knocking using Sprint, but Sprinting right out of the gate and grabbing the first 3 groups before you even had chance to gauge your healer's abilities is .... reckless at best.

[Shurrikhan]

Tbh It's hard when I use clemency, some healers get offended, "you know I can heal right?" <- an actual word said to me when I used clemency cuz all of my defensive skills were on cooldown due to a dancer refused to use AOE killing packs in Akademia Anyder.

Ehh, even if you got the rare healer who lets you drop low without ever being idle, it's still near enough to potency-even between their (typically) 2 GCDs opened up for AoE that they've no reason to be offended unless you're delaying a good use of Essential Dignity/Benediction or would waste Excog in the pull.

[WhyAmIHere]

A DRK and a GNB would have had passive HP Regeneration and probably wouldn't have gotten that low in the first place, and DRK also has Astral Drain, GNB has Aura.
A WAR has Equilibrium which I hope they were smart enough to properly time. And in a pinch, Thrill of Battle works too, even if for a second or two.

A huge part of PLD's survivability is Clemency and it is in their toolkit for a reason. WAR gets Rampart, and two other skills I can never remember the name of (the one that has counter attacks, and the other that doesn't). GNB and DRK both get HP regens (Souleater and Brutal Shell), along with Rampart and their other defensive skills.

PLD seems like it stands alone in that its main mitigation is a casted self-heal that nobody wants to use because it shares MP and a slot with a DPS spell and of course, we gotta go max DPS all the way, even in a leveling dungeon. How dare a PLD help the healer by using some of their survivability toolkit, right?

The tanks across the board were designed to be reasonably close to each other in survivability, but DRK, WAR, and GNB don't have the problem of having to share resources between mitigation and DPS. The mitigation buttons are oGCD and don't get in the way of your DPS, so those tanks tend to use them on a regular basis.

. . .
where to start.
DRK absolutely shares resources between mitigation and DPS. TBN.
Every tank has rampart. Every tank has a 30% mitigation. Every tank has Arm's Length. Every tank has Reprisal. PLD has shelltron that requires 50 oath gauge which takes time (read: autos) to build up. WAR has Thrill, Equilibrium, and eventually Nascent. DRK has TBN. We don't talk about Dark Mind. GNB's Aurora is a nice additional regen, and the shield from brutal shell is there. GNB also has Camouflage.
Your point of "their mitigation is an oGCD" is across the board for all tanks. ALL tanks.

Clemency is not their main mitigation. Shelltron is their main mitigation. It gets the 6s duration trait at (some level), otherwise it's 4s of blocks. The key difference between PLD and DRK, while both have less overall mitigation tools compared to GNB and WAR, is that DRK's TBN, if broken, refunds that mana towards a free Edge/Flood cast. PLD gets no such leeway because Shelltron doesn't run the risk of being DPS negative, i.e. they lose nothing if shelltron only blocks some hits. DRK loses damage if the bubble doesn't break, but that does mean they get 7s of 0 damage incoming.

Clemency is not some massive tool like you seem to think it is. It is a nice tool sure, but it's not their main tool. They have the strongest invuln in the game, which should be used liberally IMO in dungeon pulls to start off until you have enough oath gauge to be throwing inbetween your other mitigations. Not to say Clemency is without its uses, but please do not think you're accurate in your assessment to how well it should be used.

All tanks have passive HP regen. DRK's *Abyssal Drain is bad now that its on a 60s recast and doesn't scale the healing to the number of enemies hit. Aurora is filler regens that are nice to help your healer out but overall it's only meh strong IMO. Cure 1 has a higher upfront healing potency. Physick as well, at 400 potency, will heal more up front that an initial aurora tic will, but overtime it helps.

---

How can you be sure the PLD did not check your gear? Can you, with absolute 100% certainty, say without any doubt that the PLD did not at all look at your gear, and see "well they have decent enough gear I should be fine."

And please stop underselling SCH. SCH is just fine in dungeons on mass pulls. Liberal use of Whisper Dawn and Fey Illumination go a long way to helping your healing. at 76 you get Recitation which is a godsend. Excog is great to throw out first thing once you're able to / after using Recitation to use it pre-battle. Fey Union is a non-negligable regen on the tank at the expense of that's all your fairy is doing for as long as you have fairy gauge. I say this as someone who took SCH to 80 as my first class to level upon 5.0's release, and even the early access period. And I'm bad at this game so I know if I can handle it literally anyone can.


All in all it really just seems like you aren't as skilled at healing larger pulls, which isn't a bad thing. If you're not comfortable with them, then I cannot help but notice: Did you ever once ask the PLD to dial back the pulls? Again, you cannot assume people that are not you, nor anyone you know, will know anything about you or your playstyle / preferences.

[LeoLupinos]

HUR DUR PLD don't use clemency because healers... BOOMM PALADIN IS DEAD, NICE DPS WHILE DEAD.

JUST USE CLEMENCY, IT'S JUST CASUAL CONTENT!

[Palibun]

A DRK and a GNB would have had passive HP Regeneration and probably wouldn't have gotten that low in the first place, and DRK also has Astral Drain, GNB has Aura.
A WAR has Equilibrium which I hope they were smart enough to properly time. And in a pinch, Thrill of Battle works too, even if for a second or two.

A huge part of PLD's survivability is Clemency and it is in their toolkit for a reason. WAR gets Rampart, and two other skills I can never remember the name of (the one that has counter attacks, and the other that doesn't). GNB and DRK both get HP regens (Souleater and Brutal Shell), along with Rampart and their other defensive skills.


Which, you know, maybe they shouldn't be pulling 3 groups with an unsynch'd SCH, knowing their good stuff is on VERY limited basis, with an average of 1 ability per 20 seconds if the dungeon is that difficult compared to other dungeons? Maybe the pulls should be a bit smaller with an unsync'd healer?

You clearly have never played pld in your life, or any tank for that matter.
First of all, pld has rampart and all that, every single tank does. Pld has 5 defensive buffs, that being rampart, sentienal, reprisal, sheltron, and hallowed ground, that is more than enough to keep you alive without clemency. Not sure about gnb or war, but as a drk main as well drk's hp regen is garbage compared to clemency. If clemency is quote on quote 'necessary' then drk would be total trash. You shouldn't be single targeting in big groups so that hp regen is not a big factor (nor is it enough to really tip the scales), and abyssal drain has a decently long cd plus is only good in big pulls. If anything pld is the most chunky of them all, or at least pretty damn high up there, so self healing is arguably the worst on it (not that clem is bad, but just theoretically).
And when it comes to unsynced/undergeared, i've walled to wall pulled with undergeared healers in pre-clemency dungeons and still didn't die. Why? Well because i popped those 4 cds i have (i always save hallowed for emergencies) and didn't die once, and the healer actually focused on me. Which that brings up a good question, what tf did you do in dungeons before clem was a thing? Yell at tanks to stop pulling like some sort of 'tank nazi'?

Tanks help healers by actually popping their cds, not by taking their job and letting the healers kick their feet up and do nothing. Sorry, but literally everyone here has agreed you're wrong. Not trying to attack you just please... actually research the things you complain about, especially if you're saying it on public forums.

[Kabooa]

If you're going to die, use clemency.

Literally no one is going to think less of you for using it.

It doesn't matter whose fault it is that you're in the danger zone, if you die when Clemency would have saved you, that's your fault.

[Shurrikhan]

. . .
where to start.
DRK absolutely shares resources between mitigation and DPS when failing intake checks. Failing to use TBN appropriately.

Corrected.

[WhyAmIHere]

Corrected.

Semantics. My point still stands DRK has to choose between mitigation and DPS and no other tank has that problem at. all.