I'm not excited about the future patch at all. Just one dungeon?

[goob]

Neither of you are going to change the other person's mind so I'm not sure why you both continue trying.

[ChocoFeru]

First off I want to say how much I love this game. FFXIV has been my home. I hate take a break but, considering the future patch just has one dungeon and a raid. There is not alot content for players like me who don't craft or gather. While I do like the gathering and crafting system. And appreciate how they made it more approachable. It is still not content that I enjoy. And I'm upset that this is the way we are getting our relic gear. It's almost as bad a Eureka. (which is something that I never had time for or enjoyed. If I wanted to play ff11 I would just go play ff11)
I don't understand. Shadowbringers was a super successful expansion it brought in so much money. But it seems we are getting less content for it not more. Meanwhile we still have a healer shortage and the two new races have limitations. While I appreciate the devs for what they do. I feel like the higher ups need to be willing to have more time and money put into the game.
I know I'm going to get alot negative comments for this. But I just want to give out my feedback.

Why do you want 2 dungeons? They end up being forgettable anyways, so why spend resources in making 2 of them?

Rather make just one and spend the rest of the time making NEW stuff.

[Tlamila]

I'm not even sure I'm reading fFXIV anymore, since people lately seem so dead set of talking about other games. If someone think another game is better, nobody's stopping them from leaving and going to play that eh.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm not even sure I'm reading fFXIV anymore, since people lately seem so dead set of talking about other games. If someone think another game is better, nobody's stopping them from leaving and going to play that eh.

Well, then let's consider:

• What period in XIV made it felt like you had the most stuff to do that you'd actually want to do?
• What felt good about that time and the content available to you?
• What did it do right that similar periods didn't manage?
• Comparing the two, what could that best period have done even better?

Finally, did dungeons play an enjoyable part in that? If not, could they easily play an enjoyable part in that?

If you want the discussion solely in terms of XIV, then we're limited to only what's been done in or is readily imaginable for XIV with zero outside ideas. If XIV's never managed anything great, nor provided obvious roots for anything great, then that's that, sadly.

[Rilifane]

I'm not even sure I'm reading fFXIV anymore, since people lately seem so dead set of talking about other games. If someone think another game is better, nobody's stopping them from leaving and going to play that eh.

Dismissing other people's input with a "if you like it so much better, then just go play XY" is a bit childish. People don't compare and critize because they don't like FFXIV but because they care about the game and want to see it continue to grow and evolve in a good way. And sometimes that includes taking pointers from other games.
No MMO on the market is perfect but even those that failed spectaculary brought something good to the table.

While Rift failed in many other areas, the talent system was one of the most fun I have ever seen in an MMO. Though there were some cookie cutter builds for endgame content, it was overall not an illusion of choice but actual choice with several viable builds, all having different nuances. And outside endgame you could play around endlessly and design fun and niche builds with very specific uses.
The zone events were also pretty cool and fun for low and high level alike and while FATE trains aren't bad, they are definitely not that elaborate.

WoW has a very broad spectrum of max level content with fluent difficulty. Mythic+ dungeons offer challenging content where you can step up the difficulty at your own pace and get lots of variation through the affix/ suffix combinations, the different difficulties for raids offer everything from a more laid-back "story" version to high difficulty with only the highest requiring a fixed raid size. And there are almost no awkward jumps in difficulty; the endboss on normal is often comparable to the first bosses on heroic with the endboss on heroic often being comparable to the first bosses on mythic, so raids can gradually work their way up.

On the other hand, FFXIV is definitely way ahead when it comes to crafting and gathering.

One of the issues FFXIV has is that it offers little for midcore players and casual players who enjoy combat-related activities compared to non-combat activities like Gold Saucer, housing, glamour etc.
And other games have shown that it is possible to make content with fluent difficulty that is still interesting even after running it several times. There is no need to copy-paste the approach but taking a few pointers when another MMO did something right isn't a bad idea. Otherwise the game grows stale over the years.
It's not about the amount of dungeons, it's about how they are designed and utilized. Right now they are some cool designs but they aren't utilized beyond "run it daily for tomes".

[Tlamila]

Dismissing other people's input with a "if you like it so much better, then just go play XY" is a bit childish. People don't compare and critize because they don't like FFXIV but because they care about the game and want to see it continue to grow and evolve in a good way. And sometimes that includes taking pointers from other games.
No MMO on the market is perfect but even those that failed spectaculary brought something good to the table.

The fact is that it's not other games in general, but just one. Now you mentioned Rift, and that's already expanding horizons, but just comparing two like only those two ever exist/existed, and everything needs to be like the other one, I really don't understand.
What I find childish are the various comments that go straight out insulting this game in favour of the other, from a few persons. And they do the same in every single thread.

[Hysterior]

I was pretty hardcore in 2.0, doing pretty much everything SE was throwing at us and FFXIV that my main (and pretty much only) game.
I now enjoy FFXIV more as a "game I always go back to" but not sole game.
I don't mind one dungeon in the end. Will play for a bit until my main class is geared and then come back at a later time.

[Alleo]

I'm not even sure I'm reading fFXIV anymore, since people lately seem so dead set of talking about other games. If someone think another game is better, nobody's stopping them from leaving and going to play that eh.

Why should we not be allowed to talk about stuff from other games that are done great in ones view? I love rifts housing so when I say what I wish for housing to be, I will use a real existing system as an example to strenghten my argument and to show people what I mean.

Yoshida himself has used WoW to produce FF14. (I think he said that the employees needed to play it?)

Why is it bad to compare? IMO games would do much better if they look at their rivals and see the systems that worked for them and then try to look how it could be used for their own game. No need to invent the wheel again and again if there is already something successfull existing.

The fact is that it's not other games in general, but just one. Now you mentioned Rift, and that's already expanding horizons, but just comparing two like only those two ever exist/existed, and everything needs to be like the other one, I really don't understand.

Just one? Of course WoW is more often talked about instead of other MMOs because its the biggest one on the market thus the only one right now that is truly a rival to FF14. Also we had quite a few people coming over that game to this one too. Yet I also saw more than enough discussion about FF other MMO on this site.

Its really not surprising to me and as long as nobody just posts a thread where they bash FF14 I see not problem in mentioning other MMOs.

[linay]

Less time spent idle in cities. Objectively true

False. That depends on the player, so it's subjective. And considering that WoW doesn't block dungeons/raids behind quests, you can stay at any city, idling your way to max level while queueing for dungeons and LFR. In fact, I've done that with one character in BfA.

That said, just because it's subjective doesn't really matter. I couldn't care less if someone else thinks LFR is bad for WoW. I love it for my own subjective reason, and that's all that matters to me.

In the same way, I don't care if other people think FFXIV's dungeon design is boring. I love it, and while I don't mind harder difficulty, I definitely don't want Mythic+ system in FFXIV because, even if I don't engage with that system, it can affect dungeon design even for regular dungeon in ways that I may not like or it may affect gearing and job design/balance.

[Nalien]

Finally, did dungeons play an enjoyable part in that? If not, could they easily play an enjoyable part in that?

During 2.0 and 2.1? Yes, actually. Then SE started streamlining them into oblivion. Their difficulty was greatly reduced, their layout became a universal straight line, basic objectives were completely gutted. Find the key to open the door? Optional paths for additional loot? I'll admit, both of those were never solid in 2.0s timeframe, but that was very much an issue with how it was handled. Side paths, for example, were never worthwhile because the loot from dungeons is just worthless. Put something different down those paths, and suddenly it becomes much more viable to do them. Treasure Maps, Tomestones, substantial amounts of crafting materials, there's plenty they could add these days to make such paths worthwhile, but in ARR people didn't care about getting an extra X-potion (yes, I shit you not, that was actually often the reward for doing optional paths in dungeons before they were gutted from the game) so I guess the whole idea was bad...

Sad thing is, they got this right in 1.x with your Job gear and Relics. Once upon a time you had to go into Cutter's Cry (and other dungeons) as part of the quest to get your Job gear, it wasn't a case of "Clear Cutter's Cry" to finish the quest, you had to actually find the gear in the dungeon and interact with it or a chest (I forget which). That made dungeons a whole lot more interesting to do, IMHO.

Now, I get why they removed that kind of gameplay, but I completely disagree with the reasoning. This is an MMO. Part of that means socializing with random people. If "Can we go down this route so I can get X?" is too big an ask, or heck just using the Party Finder to organize a specific run of a piece of content... Well, I know that's too much of an ask for people these days, that's a large part of why the MMO genre is a stagnant mess. Still, SE could easily work in a system that encourages helping such people. We already have the first time bonus, right? Make something similar. Someone has a quest where they need to do an optional path in a dungeon? Clearing that for them earns you all extra rewards. Then it's not a case of helping them out "wastes my time", it's a case of saving you time because you earn a bunch of easy extra tomestones. Personally I don't need that incentive, because breaking up the monotony of the usual dungeon run, actually talking with people in a dungeon, that's it's own damn reward in this game.

Like one of the final ARR Relic quests, where you had to do a bunch of dungeons to get key items? If instead of it just being a "Clear this dungeon" thing, and instead they added new paths to dungeons and the key items were at the ends of those? That would have been amazing IMHO. That would have got me excited to run the same old dungeons again, that could break up monotony on the roulette when you get that dungeon and someone needs that path... But no... It's 2019 and gamers only care about efficiency, anything that slows down a dungeon run is bad and therefore SE has to streamline everything down to a dull 10 minute dash on the Tomestone Treadmill... I swear, people don't actually want to play this game, and SE doesn't want to make a game for people to play... It's all about maximizing idle time in Limsa...