Butt is flat again... Patch 5.15

[Nandrolone]

I just checked the In-Game Bugs section of the forums, and it seems someone has fortunately made a thread about the whole thing. We will see what happens from there I guess. Still though, I can’t help but find it odd that there are many items that “clip”, but the NieR bottoms are chosen as priority number 1.

I know Square Enix has good intentions, and I know if they were truly against more westernized tushies, it would be flat from day 1. However, there is a strange pattern happening from what I see. Perhaps the higher ups at Square Enix aren’t happy about that? Or maybe their ethics department isn’t happy about it? Whatever the reason is, it would be nice to have Yoshida somehow explain why it is considered priority number one over everything else relating to clipping. Especially after acknowledging in a past live letter that NA and EU fans would like a Butt slider feature. That’s what I don’t get.

[Iscah]

However, there is a strange pattern happening from what I see.

A pattern of this incident and what else?

The only pattern I can think of is how full-length pants on male characters turn into fancy underwear for the female version.

[SturmChurro]

A pattern of this incident and what else?

The pattern of SE being "regressive", and "censoring" the booty what else. It's like the number one diatribe.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tt-enhancement

Just read the title of this "bug report".

[Iscah]

The pattern of SE being "regressive", and "censoring" the booty what else. It's like the number one diatribe.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tt-enhancement

Just read the title of this "bug report".

Are you trying to be sarcastic, or did you misunderstand what I was saying? (Or did I misunderstand the person I quoted? I don't think I did on a second read.)

As I read it, they seem to be saying there is a pattern of SE doing things like adjusting the 2B model, possibly due to "higher-ups or the ethics department".

If that was the case, where are the other things to make that a "pattern"? You can't claim a pattern from one point of evidence.

[SturmChurro]

Are you trying to be sarcastic, or did you misunderstand what I was saying? (Or did I misunderstand the person I quoted? I don't think I did on a second read.)

As I read it, they seem to be saying there is a pattern of SE doing things like adjusting the 2B model, possibly due to "higher-ups or the ethics department".

You misunderstood the person you were quoting. They are alluding to the same thing, "regression", censorship, etc. If you want proof, you already provided that part of the quote(s), and I provided the bug report link, here's more:

It’s like, let me get this straight. Bust sliders are okay, however, hip and/or butt sliders are not. Fine. But butt items aren’t either? Okay, this tells me that someone or multiple developers are highly against curvy rears. And if it indeed is an ethics department issue, then simply modify current glamour to give a more realistic rear. I understand in Japan or Korea, the way women normally look is different than here. However, final Fantasy is supposed to appeal to many demographics in the west too. And in case you didn’t know, Square, not all of us are built that way. I do not have a rear that looks like that. Many women do not.

Geez, not only is it petty, but they clearly have an obvious bias. Bust sliders are allowed, but god forbid bigger tushies and more character facial options are implemented. This is beyond petty, wow. I’m lost.

[Iscah]

You misunderstood the person you were quoting. They are alluding to the same thing, "regression", censorship, etc. If you want proof, you already provided that part of the quote(s), and I provided the bug report link, here's more:

Yes, they are talking about "regression" and "censorship" regarding this issue, you and they have both pointed to the same bug report, made today by a fan about this issue, and somehow this adds up to a pattern of SE censoring things.

What are the other things? Where is the pattern of things that SE has done that are in the same vein as but not involving this one 2B model?

[SturmChurro]

Yes, they are talking about "regression" and "censorship" regarding this issue, you and they have both pointed to the same bug report, made today by a fan about this issue, and somehow this adds up to a pattern of SE censoring things.

What are the other things? Where is the pattern of things that SE has done that are in the same vein as but not involving this one 2B model?

I have literally replied to you about this before... maybe you missed it..(?) Then you misunderstood me. I was being sarcastic.

Your post here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5254754

and

my post here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5254760

It's literally one post down from your post. I also don't understand how you could have taken my post as my thoughts when I literally said

The pattern of SE being "regressive", and "censoring" the booty what else. It's like the number one diatribe.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tt-enhancement

Just read the title of this "bug report".

How do you even take this as me saying my thoughts, or me claiming this is a pattern with SE? To add even more like 90% of my posts are disputing that "Fact" in the first place. Another one:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5253890

I am talking about other people here, and how ridiculous the thought is that SE would be doing this because they are "regressive" or trying to censor, I was just echoing those thoughts. Nothing more.

[plasmacutter]

Yes, they are talking about "regression" and "censorship" regarding this issue, you and they have both pointed to the same bug report, made today by a fan about this issue, and somehow this adds up to a pattern of SE censoring things.

What are the other things? Where is the pattern of things that SE has done that are in the same vein as but not involving this one 2B model?

Regression is not "censorship", it's a specific software engineering term for when a "fix" causes a new bug in an existing feature.

This is precisely what has happened here.

The "fix" has caused greater impact than the "bug" it was intending to resolve.

The proper course is for it to be caught in QA before it goes live and sent back with a message saying "try another approach cause this one caused a regression"

My real concern here is the possibility that this was the "agreed upon approach" and they thought "nobody would notice". Boy did they get that wrong if this is the case. It's important the community strongly signal a better and more narrow approach to their intended "fix" needs to be taken.

[Iscah]

Regression is not "censorship", it's a specific software engineering term for when a "fix" causes a new bug in an existing feature.

This is precisely what has happened here.

The "fix" has caused greater impact than the "bug" it was intending to resolve.

The proper course is for it to be caught in QA before it goes live and sent back with a message saying "try another approach cause this one caused a regression"

My real concern here is the possibility that this was the "agreed upon approach" and they thought "nobody would notice". Boy did they get that wrong if this is the case. It's important the community strongly signal a better and more narrow approach to their intended "fix" needs to be taken.

I didn't say regression IS censorship, but the first post that started this back-and-forth seemed to be implying that censorship might be the cause. (It was Sturm Churro that mentioned both regression and censorship in the one sentence first, which I was directly replying to.)

I requote:

I know Square Enix has good intentions, and I know if they were truly against more westernized tushies, it would be flat from day 1. However, there is a strange pattern happening from what I see. Perhaps the higher ups at Square Enix aren’t happy about that? Or maybe their ethics department isn’t happy about it? Whatever the reason is, it would be nice to have Yoshida somehow explain why it is considered priority number one over everything else relating to clipping. Especially after acknowledging in a past live letter that NA and EU fans would like a Butt slider feature. That’s what I don’t get.

This sounds a lot more like they're implying censorship and not just "they introduced a new error".

And still nobody has pointed out how this is a pattern.

---

In any case, on your (plasmacutter's) "concern that this was the 'agreed upon approach'"... maybe it was. That still doesn't mean they did it because they knew people would object but wanted to slip it under the radar, or that they viewed it as a regression in the first place.

Maybe they genuinely think it's less important.

Maybe they thought the change was only affecting dresses where you wouldn't see it anyway.

Maybe they did the best they could within their time/budget constraints and this seemed the easiest way to respond to complaints and fix it.

(Maybe this forum just has a disproportionate focus on the issue compared to other places. I'm on the Eorzea Collection Discord - a website entirely focused on in-game fashion - and nobody even mentioned the changes until someone asked about the patch notes today. There was absolutely zero outrage.)