Red Mage is top tier - [job effectiveness = player skill]

[Silverquick]

But there is. Let's just take E2S, a fight with only one single target: Max Dmg for SMN on FFlogs is 16,603.04, RDM 15,876.91. Median is 14,2k for SMN, RDM 13,1k

That's great and all.

But after personal experience now with RDM.

I simply do not and have never spent the majority of my time DPSing in a Raid. I'm doing one of three things, my time is divided between DPSing, Healing, and Raising.

So I cannot put much stock in FFlogs when it comes to measuring DPS from a RDM.

[Neela]

That's great and all.

But after personal experience now with RDM.

I simply do not and have never spent the majority of my time DPSing in a Raid. I'm doing one of three things, my time is divided between DPSing, Healing, and Raising.

So I cannot put much stock in FFlogs when it comes to measuring DPS from a RDM.

Thx, for disqualifying yourself for endgame debats with this comment.

[ReiMakoto]

That's great and all.

But after personal experience now with RDM.

I simply do not and have never spent the majority of my time DPSing in a Raid. I'm doing one of three things, my time is divided between DPSing, Healing, and Raising.

So I cannot put much stock in FFlogs when it comes to measuring DPS from a RDM.

If you're spending time doing that your team is really bad and they're gimping your damage, and is not an attitude to take to savage

[Silverquick]

If you're spending time doing that your team is really bad and they're gimping your damage, and is not an attitude to take to savage

Fair enough,

But also consider that you were talking about an "average" from FF Logs... so you have to account for the fact a lot of Red Mage DPS being submitted probably also includes a lot of RDMs who have to do exactly what I said.

So its just not really possible to take the DPS outputs from FFLogs with regards to Red Mage to be much different as they too would include a lot of Red Mages who split their time DPS, Healing, and Ressing.

[ReiMakoto]

Fair enough,

But also consider that you were talking about an "average" from FF Logs... so you have to account for the fact a lot of Red Mage DPS being submitted probably also includes a lot of RDMs who have to do exactly what I said.

So its just not really possible to take the DPS outputs from FFLogs with regards to Red Mage to be much different as they too would include a lot of Red Mages who split their time DPS, Healing, and Ressing.

Even at the top end not the average red mage is behind

[Silverquick]

Even at the top end not the average red mage is behind

What you would have to do to get an accurate average of RDMs DPS would be to remove all samples of RDMs who use a heal or Res...

Then take the average of those specifically to get an accurate DPS number from RDM.

And the pool is a little too small for that.

[Kabooa]

What you would have to do to get an accurate average of RDMs DPS would be to remove all samples of RDMs who use a heal or Res...

Then take the average of those specifically to get an accurate DPS number from RDM.

And the pool is a little too small for that.

Which is what you expect from 95-99th percentile. The Red mages who don't have to do that.

[Lambdafish]

What you would have to do to get an accurate average of RDMs DPS would be to remove all samples of RDMs who use a heal or Res...

Then take the average of those specifically to get an accurate DPS number from RDM.

And the pool is a little too small for that.

If you are healing and rezzing as a RDM, you aren't even going to get a blue parse, let alone top parse, or even average. The pool is pretty big at 3000 parses over the past two weeks, which if you think that's too small, then it would actually lean away from your argument as those who would be healing and rezzing probably aren't using FFlogs.

The content is old, people have been farming it for months, people aren't dying to an extent that a RDM needs to help.

[Silverquick]

If you are healing and rezzing as a RDM, you aren't even going to get a blue parse, let alone top parse, or even average. The pool is pretty big at 3000 parses over the past two weeks, which if you think that's too small, then it would actually lean away from your argument as those who would be healing and rezzing probably aren't using FFlogs.

The content is old, people have been farming it for months, people aren't dying to an extent that a RDM needs to help.

That's actually not really true,

We are talking a very miniscule difference in damage here... that means one or two cures/verraise is going to drop your damage by about that percentage, its that small.

So you would have to go through all those logs, remove any that used a vercure or verrraise, and take ONLY those that did pure DPS as an average.

So of your average of 3000 parces... how many are after the buffs of 5.1? Then how many of those never used a Vercure or Verraise? Its going to be a very small pool that's left.

[Gruntler]

That's great and all.

But after personal experience now with RDM.

I simply do not and have never spent the majority of my time DPSing in a Raid. I'm doing one of three things, my time is divided between DPSing, Healing, and Raising.

So I cannot put much stock in FFlogs when it comes to measuring DPS from a RDM.

Well there's your problem right there.

If you're spending so much time raising that it becomes a massive detriment to your damage output, then you have some big problems.

Vercure has two uses, and ONLY two uses: 1) Priming a dualcast during downtime; 2) Absolute dire emergencies where not doing so means a wipe.

Otherwise, it is preferable that your healer, even a WHM with their 'omgpowerful Glare' cast literally any heal, than you give up a damage spell for a Vercure.

Look at it this way; ask your WHM--would they give up a Glare to cast a Cure I? The answer is probably no.

Then ask them 'Okay, but what if instead of casting a Cure I, you gave up that Glare to cast a Cure I with 77% the potency?'

They'll probably tell you to go screw themselves.

'Then stop asking me to do that ffs, you don't prioritize healer dps over DPS' DPS.'

And if your healer is not doing that, then you need to bench the healer.

Now, you're new to the job, and I can appreciate your enthusiasm. Please don't take this criticism as 'parseshaming', but rather, as a wakeup call to why you're kinda getting trounced in this thread.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/mJ3Hh...pe=damage-done

First off: In the only fight with you we have a record of, you are getting -destroyed- by a summoner. Claiming that you and summoner are doing equal damage, when we can see a fight where you're doing 39% less damage than a summoner, shows that you aren't even getting your own personal anecdote correct.

Moreover, you are assuming your own experience to be an adqueate yardstick to how RDM should perform.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/2H6tf...pe=damage-done

I'm not even going to claim this was good or adequate performance for a RDM on Levi Normal back in August, but rather, this is more about what you can expect to accomplish.

To put where you stand into perspective, this is a RDM performance from LAST EXPANSION:

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/D3TRG...pe=damage-done

Notice: You're only about 1k higher than that in your -current- expansion set up.

Now notice my casts:

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/2H6tf...casts&source=4

1 verraise (Though I will say it's okay to raise more as a RDM)

1 vercure, and if you notice, it's an overcure during Maelstrom, because I'm prepping a Verthunder or Veraero for when he comes back.

You should NOT be vomiting vercures, they are NOT that good.

The biggest advice I can give you though--you're not casting enough. You should keep that GCD rolling--85% uptime is not good on RDM. If you need to move, Enchanted Reprise when Swiftcast is off. Get used to using it, it's really good.