Everyone's talking about smn buffs. But what about mch

[Duelle]

The problem runs deeper than boss design, for one a boss forcing "ranged" to stay away, does this include casters ? cause than people would still complain that the phys ranged have it soo much easier than casters.

Not necessarily. In my hypothetical scenario, if there's no ranged or everyone is standing at melee range, then this ability that deals AoE damage and goes out every 8s would instead aim one of the melee. Depending on other factors in the fight, you'll want someone to always stand at range to bait the ability, and since it happens regularly, you can't stack up with everyone during the fight for that very reason.

On the topic of melee having it "easier", I'm of the belief melee should have duties of their own mid-fight, but I'm thinking SE is either afraid of pissing melee players off or some of their systems simply have no room for duties outside of hitting the thing until it dies. Otherwise I'd push for stun and interrupt duty to fall squarely on the melee, and designing fights moving forward with that in mind; if your melee ain't interrupting, you're not killing the boss. This gives ranged a role during a fight and melee have theirs as well. Sadly, interrupts has been pushed on tanks (why?) and stuns aren't relevant in most fights, so...

Also if it does any 3 ranged combination (which i don't say should be encouraged, but certainly not actively discoraged) would be put at an active disadvantage because now you either have to heal 3 people instead of two or at least 2 people at random instead of knowing beforehand who will get hit, if however it doesn't include casters on the other hand phys ranged would just fall in the range of "liability because of extra mechanic"+it begs the question of how to handle mechanics that actively encourage the group to stack together, or make due with a smaller amount of the arena, saying "a mch could have a small range taser for example" is like saying "the dragoon can simply bait mechanics while throwing spears". However theres also class design in general, heals in this game aren't designed for the group splitting up, neither are group buffs, and you cant simply raise the range because at least for some of these skills things like a decreased ranged are part of their balance.

This is a fair point. Though I would say my suggestions are keeping pre-mades in mind. Mechanics like what I mentioned should be applicable to Savage and EX fights where most raid leaders have some sort of idea of what their group comp is and how to tweak it to meet their needs. With fights having both mechanics that need to be handled by ranged and duties given to melee, a raid has to aim to be balanced if you want to actually get a kill and have all mechanics covered.

gotta be honest here, i wouldn't have minded if mch going into stormblood kept gauss barrel, where i see the problem is that again, People argue that their needs to be restriction on the role, otherwise we would just have this amazing all ranged meta, if you give castbars to one of these jobs no matter which and keep the others as is all that would do is make 1 phys ranged obviously better than the other two (thats assuming that one gets caster damage going with the castbars, the others don't). Again, i'm totally with you that balancing around "difficulty" is a terrible thing to even try for an mmo, the original post i was adressing was basically saying "just make us hard as shit if that means we can finally get to deal damage" which i can totally understand as the desperate plea not to feel shitty for playing a class you like it is, i just think that finding different gimmicks for the three ranged would leave us exactly where we allready are, half the community going "no, thats to easy, you can't deal damage else no one will take me ever again"

To be frank, I think that splitting ranged DPS into magical and physical was a mistake in the long run. Ranged should be one category composed of what we call casters and physical ranged, with each job being tuned around their specific concept and expected DPS output of the role on a job-per-job basis, not within the confines of a subrole that has to be in a certain bracket because reasons. And this is especially true for MCH thanks to it being the most "selfish" of the three physical ranged jobs.

In a world where Refresh, BRD songs and MCH auras don't exist, there's little sense in keeping ranged split into two categories. One could say utility, though we already have examples of things like MNK with Mantra, SMN with Devotion and RDM with off-heals and Raise as to why that logic is shaky at best.

[Akiudo]

Not necessarily. In my hypothetical scenario, if there's no ranged or everyone is standing at melee range, then this ability that deals AoE damage and goes out every 8s would instead aim one of the melee. Depending on other factors in the fight, you'll want someone to always stand at range to bait the ability, and since it happens regularly, you can't stack up with everyone during the fight for that very reason.

On the topic of melee having it "easier", I'm of the belief melee should have duties of their own mid-fight, but I'm thinking SE is either afraid of pissing melee players off or some of their systems simply have no room for duties outside of hitting the thing until it dies. Otherwise I'd push for stun and interrupt duty to fall squarely on the melee, and designing fights moving forward with that in mind; if your melee ain't interrupting, you're not killing the boss. This gives ranged a role during a fight and melee have theirs as well. Sadly, interrupts has been pushed on tanks (why?) and stuns aren't relevant in most fights, so...

Sorry if i was being unclear but you kinda miss my point here, what i mean is if this is a mechanic that hits say the 2 dps that are furthest away than that does in no way, shape or form change that phys ranged are so much "easier" than the casters that people that now argue phys ranged are so advantaged by their mobility they are going to make everyone else obsolete by doing comparable damage will change their opinion on that. while at the same time making certain kinds of fight mechanics we have right now really really problematic, like yes, you could in the future design fights with that in mind, but restricting what you can or can't do during fight design without any payoff (solving the "phys ranged have it so much easier" situation) i would argue is not worth it.

This is a fair point. Though I would say my suggestions are keeping pre-mades in mind. Mechanics like what I mentioned should be applicable to Savage and EX fights where most raid leaders have some sort of idea of what their group comp is and how to tweak it to meet their needs. With fights having both mechanics that need to be handled by ranged and duties given to melee, a raid has to aim to be balanced if you want to actually get a kill and have all mechanics covered.

and expecting a "balanced" group and punishing you in some way shape or form for having one that is unbalanced is fair, my point was that theres no reason square should actively encourage "2 melee/1 caster/1 phys ranged" or even "2 melee/2 ranged" as balanced considering we got 4 melees and 6 ranged. Like i said earlier, it should not be discouraged, you should not want 1 melee and never a second, but theres really no reason square should actively make you want a second melee over a second caster/phys ranged, the current class distribution really doesn't support that setup anymore, this was different when the game launched and has simply stuck until now but that doesn't mean the developer actively should push for it to be kept that way.

To be frank, I think that splitting ranged DPS into magical and physical was a mistake in the long run. Ranged should be one category composed of what we call casters and physical ranged, with each job being tuned around their specific concept and expected DPS output of the role on a job-per-job basis, not within the confines of a subrole that has to be in a certain bracket because reasons. And this is especially true for MCH thanks to it being the most "selfish" of the three physical ranged jobs.

In a world where Refresh, BRD songs and MCH auras don't exist, there's little sense in keeping ranged split into two categories. One could say utility, though we already have examples of things like MNK with Mantra, SMN with Devotion and RDM with off-heals and Raise as to why that logic is shaky at best.

while i would disagree on dps buffs being called utility balance wise i actually am in agreement with you here, personally i believe casters/phys ranged should be the sole category of "ranged" counterbalanced by the category of "melee" in which case it would also once again make sense to push for a 2/2 split (though this also means we should get 2 melees as the next dps), but the fact of the matter is that a) as it is thats not what we got, that may or may not change in the future, right now it doesn't look like it will. And B) that still doesn't adress the "physical ranged are soooo superior because they can all dance around like ninjas" argument.