Viera can't use the new Modern Aesthetics - Modern Legend

[Nalien]

And yet, they add those hairstyles and hats for races that a less played than Vieras, like Elezen or Roe, even thoug it adds works for them to make it match the head shape (especially for Elezen and their pointy ears).

That's simply false though... All previous races have essentially the same shape head, with the extra work being (as you said) just the ears, which is a simple case of some races having pointier ears than others (or ears in a different place/shape for Miqote). Other than that it's simply taking the same model of headgear and scaling it to the different sizes for different races. It's also something they've had years of experience working with, making something work for Miqote is an easy job for them because of that. Meanwhile Viera/Hrothgar are somewhat radically different and new, they have relatively no experience modeling gear/hairstyles for them. They're still working out how to do that with Viera/Hrothgar, while with Miqote/etc they've known what to do for well over half a decade.

Hrothgar have an entirely different head/face structure, which is why it is so much extra work to work headgear for them. Viera, while I'm fairly certain have a similar (though still somewhat different) head shape to the other races, have not only massive ears, but massive ears you can customize. They're similar to Miqote in a lot of regards, except their ears are bigger, so the whole ear-condom idea Miqote get stuck with most of the time doesn't apply. That makes it a bit harder to work headgear for them, even before you factor in something like some Viera having floppy ears and some having erect ears, which again compounds the issue. Miqote and Lalafell/Elezen essentially have a one-size-fits-all when it comes to headgear and their ears, for Viera they've made a problem for themselves with the floppy ears; It's probably all too easy to add headgear for most Viera, but then you put it on the floppy ear model and it's clipping galore. That's something they need to consider when adapting headgear for Viera, and as I said, they don't yet have the experience with doing it.

Now for hairstyles... Honestly not sure what the holdup on Viera is, a few might clip with the ears in a bad way, but something like this most recent one? I can't see that being too much work to apply to Viera, when it comes to hair their head shape isn't wildly different from existing races. Hrothgar is another story entirely of course. I imagine it's a case of SE working themselves thin to be honest with you. Even if it's not wildly different, it still requires a bit more effort to make a hairstyle work for Viera than it does for Elezen, so they just continue the simple copy/paste job for previous races, while Viera and Hrothgar are lumped together, with Hrothgar likely taking the brunt of the workload. I suspect they want to release new options for both at the same time, to avoid complaints like "Why do Viera finally get new options while Hrothgar don't?" threads.

[Aelissa]

I suspect they want to release new options for both at the same time, to avoid complaints like "Why do Viera finally get new options while Hrothgar don't?" threads.

Exactly! Totally, 18812 hrothgars are the reason why 62841 vieras suffer.

[Nalien]

Exactly! Totally, 18812 hrothgars are the reason why 62841 vieras suffer.

Not saying it's a good justification, just that it's what I can see SE thinking with regards to it.

EDIT : and, SE never cared about clipping so they better not use that excuse, or they should remake every piece of gear to make it does not clip, just look at the naked butt when someone uses 2B armor and sits...

I somewhat disagree with that. There's a difference between allowing clipping and allowing a fairly extreme case of clipping. The floppy ears, for example, could easily end up clipping into various pieces of headgear in an extremely noticeable and unattractive manner. A lot of the cases of clipping we have currently are things you have to look for to notice, you can easily miss them at a glance. Where as floppy ears would always be front and center, first thing you're likely to see about a Viera.

[Celef]

I somewhat disagree with that. There's a difference between allowing clipping and allowing a fairly extreme case of clipping. The floppy ears, for example, could easily end up clipping into various pieces of headgear in an extremely noticeable and unattractive manner. A lot of the cases of clipping we have currently are things you have to look for to notice, you can easily miss them at a glance. Where as floppy ears would always be front and center, first thing you're likely to see about a Viera.

Yep, clearly have to look for it to see it xD

[Nalien]

Yep, clearly have to look for it to see it xD

Now try noticing it from the front. Try examining them and immediately noticing the clipping without rotating their character. Try noticing that kind of clipping on the OF avatars, or their Lodestone page.

Meanwhile, Vieras ears sit on the top of their head, any clipping there is going to be noticed regardless of what angle you look at them from. It's simply a far more noticeable and egregious form of clipping, and I suspect SE wants to handle it better as a result, hence the extra work and time going into sorting it out.

EDIT: Let me put it this way, would you rather they rush out some options and you have just a bunch of clipping issues, or would you rather they take their time and not have those clipping issues? Imagine your examples there and slap them flat on the top of your characters head. Do you want clipping of that level or do you want them to mitigate that sort of disaster?

[Celef]

Now try noticing it from the front. Try examining them and immediately noticing the clipping without rotating their character. Try noticing that kind of clipping on the OF avatars, or their Lodestone page.

Well, considering I see my avatar's back all the time minus CS....I'de say I see more clipping than non clipping things ^^"

Plus, again, they made the Vieras, why add floppy ears if you can't handdle them ? I mean, they did not test the race before adding it ? oO

EDIT: they did not bother to care about the clipping issues for all the other hairstyles so why would they try now ? false excuse
And we are juste discussing hairstyles here.....

[Nalien]

Plus, again, they made the Vieras, why add floppy ears if you can't handdle them ? I mean, they did not test the race before adding it ? oO

Because there was half a decades worth of demand for not only Viera specifically, but for a race that wasn't just "Hyur with animal features". Granted, Viera are still effectively just tall Hyur with bunny ears, but compared to Miqote and Aura? I'm fairly certain they gave you customizable ears specifically because of complaints about Miqote/Aura customization options being fairly lackluster. Hrothgar clearly bear the brunt of the work in regards to a truly "different" race, and as I said earlier, SE has likely spread themselves thin with releasing two races like this and are likely packaging their new options in the interest of "fairness".

It's not even a case of them doing this and creating problems they didn't expect. They did expect these problems, they knew they'd fall behind because of it and they've apologized and given their reasoning/justification/excuses regarding it.

EDIT: they did not bother to care about the clipping issues for all the other hairstyles so why would they try now ? false excuse

Again, because it is no where near as noticeable as it would be with Viera. Again, please just imagine the examples you're presenting, but flat on the top of your head. Do you really want them to just rush out options for you if it's going to look like that? Do you think people are going to use hairstyles or headgear if it's clipping that badly? Most of the examples you've provided are clipping with regards to other pieces of gear (hair with body gear, for example). We're not even talking that for Viera, we're talking clipping with the character model itself. That's actually a fairly important distinction to make I think, but I'm about done playing devil's advocate here. They've said they're putting extra effort into Viera/Hrothgar to avoid such issues, complaining that you're not getting a rushed mess of a product instead of something slightly more polished because "they didn't care about clipping before" is bizarre to me. They clear do with regards to Viera, and I do not understand why that is an issue...

[Celef]

snip

I won't speak about the Hrothgar causen as you said, they are a very peculiar race and model.
Yet, I don't see the issue with Viera. YES, their ears ar customable and bigger than the other races BUT :
- You "just" need 2 holes for the ears, like the kitties
- They created the race from scratch ! (in opposition to the first races they had to learn how to work with), how could they not think about that when creating them ? I mean, how serious does it sound to hear a creator saying "we made them....but we don't know how to properly add content "on" them"

I'm still thinking they did nt want to add them in the first place, were "forced" by the community pressure and are trying to make it clear that "you whined you wanted Vieras, here they are but don't expect us to work to hard on them"

EDIT : and, SE never cared about clipping so they better not use that excuse, or they should remake every piece of gear to make it does not clip, just look at the naked butt when someone uses 2B armor and sits...

[reivaxe]

Now for hairstyles... Honestly not sure what the holdup on Viera is, a few might clip with the ears in a bad way, but something like this most recent one? I can't see that being too much work to apply to Viera, when it comes to hair their head shape isn't wildly different from existing races. Hrothgar is another story entirely of course. I imagine it's a case of SE working themselves thin to be honest with you. Even if it's not wildly different, it still requires a bit more effort to make a hairstyle work for Viera than it does for Elezen, so they just continue the simple copy/paste job for previous races, while Viera and Hrothgar are lumped together, with Hrothgar likely taking the brunt of the workload. I suspect they want to release new options for both at the same time, to avoid complaints like "Why do Viera finally get new options while Hrothgar don't?" threads.

I remember people scoffed at me when I raised the idea that Hrothgar and Viera are treated as a packaged deal so "expect your bun to not get any shared hair styles if Hrothgar arnt". Yeah, Hrothgar's hair system is inexcusable screwed ... but as a race they have the same "number" of hair styles as Viera. These recent events have shown to me that yeah, they don't plan to give Viera shared hair styles even when they could work with their ears. I also expect their hair styles will come in waves ... cause each Hrothgar head has the same number of manes so I don't think any one head would get more than the others. Either they add more faces with their own manes (they've said they are going to do that, more hairs for Viera and more hairs and faces for Hrothgar) or they just add more styles to the heads we already have ... either way would bop the the number of Hrothgar hair styles up by more than 1 and as such I'd expect the Viera hairs to be expanded by that much as well.

Also lul at the people bringing popularity into this.

No, just cause you play a popular race doesn't mean your race of choice is more deserving of love than lesser played older races like Elezen and Roe that are easier to work with as they have been in the game since it's rebirth and don't have knives sticking out of the top of their heads..